Whiskey Wisdom and Wandering in Kentucky with Phil Kollin, and the Bourbon County Burn

Speaker 1: 1:13

Well, it's time for Road Adventures with Cycling Men of Leisure, the podcast for cyclists who understand that riding is not just about getting to the destination but the experience along the way. Now here are the original cycling men of leisure Adam and Michael.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Hey, buddy, good to be with you again.

Speaker 3: 1:30

Happy to be with you again, Adam. How you been.

Speaker 2: 1:33

Been good, been good, just getting ready for the school system to start up over here. But you guys start early, right.

Speaker 3: 1:40

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not like when I was a kid. So kids have been going to school for like three weeks now.

Speaker 2: 1:46

So oh, you're already in the swing of it, you got it. You're a veteran. You got it down. Yeah, no problem, you got it.

Speaker 3: 1:53

The big question is you've been golfing a lot. Oh yeah, Did they get that street fixed so you could get your bicycle to the shop?

Speaker 2: 2:02

No, no, I mean no, no. I haven't got the bike down there, but I will, but I will.

Speaker 3: 2:07

Okay, if you say so.

Speaker 2: 2:09

But you know what we got today?

Speaker 3: 2:12

We do. I do know we have a guest speaker.

Speaker 2: 2:16

We do have a guest speaker. We have somebody that that we met on one of our adventures before, and you know, this gentleman actually offered to be on our show some time ago, but we weren't, we weren't ready yet.

Speaker 3: 2:30

Wasn't that before we even had a show? Yes, it was.

Speaker 2: 2:34

We actually didn't even have anywhere to launch the show, we didn't have anything done, but we knew that our life was going to see him again and we thought now we are ready. Yes, yes, this gentleman has made it his mission to travel down every highway by way back road and no lane road in the bluegrass state, while picking up as many great stories along the way. Any guesses?

Speaker 3: 3:02

I would originally said Johnny Appleseed, but I know that's not correct.

Speaker 2: 3:06

We have Phil Collin from Phil Talks Whiskey. Phil, welcome to our show, all right.

Speaker 4: 3:10

Hey everyone. Thank you so much for having me. I would love to be Johnny Appleseed. That sounds like a much cooler gig.

Speaker 2: 3:15

I don't know, I mean I like your gig. I mean you tell a story. Well, you usually have a bourbon in your hand, when I see you at least, and that seems okay with me, he's got one right now actually.

Speaker 3: 3:27

Yes, he does Well done.

Speaker 4: 3:30

For the headgear alone, Johnny Appleseed, it might be a close tie. It might be a close fit. Thanks for that wonderful introduction, Adam. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Absolutely so for our subscribers and followers. We met Phil at the Kentucky and Kentucky Lexington, at the Bourbon Country Burn. Phil does VIP tastings there and we actually would love to tell you a story first. So for 2022, you had advertised, along with the Bourbon Country Burn folks, that you were going to do your VIP tastings and you were going to have Freddie Johnson, the third on, and Michael and I both have bonded over a lot of things investing and cycling but one of them happens to be our love of whiskeys and bourbons and the history and learning, and so we had obviously seen the Neat program and everything, and Freddie is just one of those awe-inspiring gentlemen to tell a story, and so we wanted those tickets bad, I mean, I can't express how bad we wanted them, but our love of cycling.

Speaker 3: 4:36

Problem with it is yeah, he wanted them bad, but we are on Raghbray when you release it. Oh, yes, yes. And if you know anything about Raghbray, or if you don't know anything about Raghbray, I know about Raghbray Cell service is iffy at best.

Speaker 2: 4:58

So we come into a town called Marble Rock, so I believe the tickets were going to go on sale at 11 am, maybe one, maybe noon, it doesn't matter, it's just going to go for the story 11 am I think it was somewhere around there, and we knew that Freddie Johnson was the hot ticket item, or at least in our opinion, as long as well. No, no, no, it's the hot ticket item, not just you. So we get into this town, we're pushing our bikes and it said there was a sign that said cell phone service available or Wi-Fi excuse me, wi-fi service. And so I'm like the old dog and Radio Shack commercials, you know, holding my phone up around trying to get cell phone service. No luck. And then there was a library and we went down to the library and we said, oh, we'll try here. And just for like a teaser moment, we got service for just a split second. And I'm like, oh man, we got to get these tickets and all of a sudden, my other hat.

Speaker 2: 5:55

I'm a deputy director for transportation. I'm part of an EOC emergency operations center in my county and I know that we work side by side with the firemen and policemen and all the you know, emergency personnel Fire station. I looked down to the fire station Exactly so the marble rock fire station. There was a guy standing outside and he says you, okay? And I said yeah, I got a question for you. And he said okay.

Speaker 2: 6:21

And I said I've got to buy something. And I got to buy it at 11 o'clock and I'm wondering can I get on your guest Wi-Fi? And he looks at me straight in my face and says I have no idea what the guest Wi-Fi password, why don't I give you my password? And I said why don't you? And so there we were and I don't know. I think this was actually breaking the rules of some sort. Forgive me, I'm just being honest here, but we were able to buy all four VIP tastings and I had heard the rumor mill that that wasn't supposed to happen. Is that true or false? Were you not supposed to be able to buy all four?

Speaker 4: 6:55

It's true. We've changed that this year. Okay, we've had concerns because we didn't want to over serve any of the riders, so we limited it to four tickets per night. But once we learned that the overwhelming vast majority of people attended the VIP sessions were either camping or staying in an RV and drinking slowly, it became less of a concern.

Speaker 2: 7:13

Gotcha. So we ended up getting all four, or a guideline, dare I say Guideline. Sure, like stop signs with borders that you don't have to stop at Stop signals?

Speaker 4: 7:22

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2: 7:22

Exactly so. We were high on life because here we had our tickets. Okay, so, moving fast forward to the event, can I just say A++ on the VIP tastings. Learn so much. Thank you very much. And I don't know. We've watched the program Neat. We've heard Freddie. We've seen him being into Bourbon, as we are, but listening to the story about his grandson and sharing that bourbon, I'm a grown man and the arm of my hair is standing up as he's telling a story, because it's just amazing how he tells a story.

Speaker 3: 7:58

The whole tent full of people was getting emotional. Yeah, I know it.

Speaker 4: 8:03

I mean there's a reason he's in the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame and it's not because he's a master distiller, it's not because he's an executive or a founder of a brand. It's because his uncanny ability to connect people with bourbon in a way that almost no one can and he's an inspiration to me and what I do and I tried to channel just a little bit of that and, my God, the connections he makes with people in the stories he tells. He's one of a kind Freddie Johnson is a phenomenal ambassador for just not just Buffalo Trist with the Bourbon. So we've been so lucky two times, and now this year a third time, that he's agreed to spend this Saturday night in late September with us in our VIP tasting tent. It's an honor. It's like one of the truly, you know, 365, 366 days in the calendar and that night is one I look forward to every single year when he says yes, it comes back and does a VIP tasting for the Bourbon burn.

Speaker 3: 8:49

Well, that's one of our favorite pictures is we got a picture with Freddie Johnson. In fact, on our desk in our offices we both have the Freddie Johnson root beer there. It is Signed by Freddie Johnson.

Speaker 4: 9:04

So I have a funny story for you. So for those of you listening who may not know, freddie Johnson at Buffalo Trist doesn't have a whiskey named after him. He has this great line of root beers named after him. He's root beer. And After the tasting ended you know my professional capacity a couple days later I emailed the gentleman who runs the visitor center at Buffalo trace and said thanks for everything.

Speaker 4: 9:23

It was a big hit. How did Freddie feel it went? And the skies names Matt Higgins never, never, won for long responses, but his current response was Freddie said he never signed so many bottles of root beer in his life. I think afterwards people were just coming up with him with his sharpening bottles and and what cuz? We didn't have bourbon bottles for sale. You can watch a little bit bottle. So people were excited to get anything. They said I think he signed a lot of root beer bottles at night and the kudos to Sazer. I can bubble a trace a percentage, a small percentage of the sale of every root beer goes the Benefit causes Freddie's really involved with including preservation and restoration of the old cemetery in Frankfurt.

Speaker 4: 9:55

So that was an amazing every bit of it's a great warm story, you know, yeah, great stuff.

Speaker 2: 10:00

Probably the fastest hour of my life, sure, but the one that I just, as a matter of fact, like a woman behind me, started talking when he was talking and I, I, if I, if I could give devil eyes at that moment and shoot spears, I'm like be quiet. This is a somebody I really wanted to hear, this person.

Speaker 4: 10:16

I gotta be the bad guy, cuz we two to two VIP tastings tonight. We have enough window between them. We got a clear the tent, reset the drink. So I'm the one who asked to like kind of give the wrap it up symbol to Freddie Johnson, and that's one of the more difficult asks you'll ever have us, yeah, oh yeah. For those who didn't you know Doing on the other a p-tasting, you gotta kind of wind it down. So we're thrilled. In a month We'll have them back and do it all again.

Speaker 2: 10:37

That's we're excited. We were able to purchase tickets for that. Hey, this time I was in a much, much more relaxed environment. I jumped on my computer at at 11 o'clock and I was able to purchase those.

Speaker 4: 10:50

So a lot of our founders and I had had detailed meetings about what the optimal time is to give everyone a chance Tickets, or you know. We decided we could do it the other way and do it at 2 o'clock in the morning, hawaii time.

Speaker 4: 11:01

Yeah but no, we try to. We try to pick a fair time to get everyone. As I said, we try to, my god. We try to send the word out as much as we can so that no one says so and they go fast. It's it's, it's a, it's a pleasure. I'm glad you enjoyed them. You know that's great. You got a good, good slice of the pie.

Speaker 2: 11:19

Then you got to experience a little bit of everything and your Waffles, and oh yeah, man, those were good We've since since that time, we became a big fan of stoop waffles, so thank you for the introduction to that.

Speaker 4: 11:29

I don't know if there is a sainthood for spreading the gospel of stoop waffles, but I'm hoping many years down the road I'll be enshrined.

Speaker 2: 11:36

I, I, I hope sales go up in like September, but it's not, it's not a secret weapon.

Speaker 4: 11:43

I'll tell you straight. Anyone can do like a bourbon chocolate or bourbon ball. Mix it up, have some fun. I think that wonderful Dutch treat, the stoop waffle, is the perfect compliment to a poor bourbon and I always love helping people come to that conclusion.

Speaker 3: 11:57

Well, it showed up on some of our other events. We've won. Yeah we went out golfing, took the wives out to Florida. We went golfing. They went to the salons for a long weekend and there were stoop waffles right there with us.

Speaker 4: 12:11

So could a man of leisure stoop waffle brand extension be too far in the making? I think we could do that Too far out of the questions we could put, the.

Speaker 2: 12:23

We could put the bourbon right here in the yeti Yeti cup with the stoop waffle right on top and will be just fine.

Speaker 4: 12:29

So good fame and fortune for you, gentlemen. Lie in stoop waffles. Is that a distinct possibility?

Speaker 2: 12:33

Boy, that is a stretch, but I like it there was five minutes ago, but now there's possibilities. So so when you said that Freddy allows you to do what you do, can I give you the floor for a second? And, and what is it that I know what you do?

Speaker 4: 12:48

But just to tell our listeners some there are so many distilleries now on the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, on the Kentucky Kraft Bourbon Trail, that it's really hard to stand out for one Other. And you go to a place like Makersmark and they are incredibly savvy tour guides. You go through a lot of training who can tie into the history. You go to other spots we might have someone who has distilling experience to connect the grade and then, truthfully, you go to some spots and you walk out of there Saying I somehow know less than I did when I walked in there an hour ago. But it's really hard to stand out from the pack and it's really hard when you've got these guests on the feet. You're trying to show them the warehouse and the bourbon cream, to show them the history, the lore, the social aspect, the business side and how to taste whiskey, all in an hour. And the way succinctly and passionately, that Freddy Johnson makes a connection to the history of Buffalo Trace and today and Family and today is is just an incredible skill and he's been doing it for a long time. It's not like he woke up out of bed one morning and said I'm gonna be a great tour guide. But I always give part of the credit to Buffalo Trace because I'm like if you take the Woodford distillery, woodford Reserve distillery Tour four times, it'll it'll be almost the same thing four times and that's very perfect. So, and it's beautiful and they show you the highlights.

Speaker 4: 14:03

If you ask a question, there's a set series of responses to a number of the questions. The strength of Buffalo Trace does that you usually seen small distilleries, is there a number of areas that have been put up, the OSHA bars and safety and some Sinogens information. And it allows not just Freddie but some other great guides there who've been there for a long time Lee Shelley, there's a lot of them the ability to take them anywhere they want their distillery. So Freddie might ask who's taking a distillery tour today is like I'm gonna show you something you've never seen. But who wants to see something really old? I'm gonna show you this warehouse that was hit by a tornado, so part of his distillery that gives him the wherewithal to show different parts off and maybe parts that he feels passionate, he's excited about. So it's a combination of this guy who's able to weave a great story connecting history, people and a distillery that lets Freddie be Freddie.

Speaker 2: 14:53

That's cool, that's cool.

Speaker 4: 14:55

And then he also has this ability to snack for what I take 17 and a half sentences to say. He can say in two and you know a great. Freddy is a miss. An empty bottle of bourbon generates far more memories than a full bottle sitting on your shelf, and hot damn if that's not wisdom.

Speaker 3: 15:11

Enough shell.

Speaker 4: 15:12

I don't, I don't know what is, and he's got a nose, you know yeah and each one's more poignant than the one in the past.

Speaker 2: 15:18

It's something that we took last year and really just took to heart was when, when he said you should if you sit down with a friend that you haven't seen in a while, you should both sign the bottle when you're, when you're enjoying, enjoying the spirit, and so you both have a memory of that, making that memory and to us, that really touched a point when he was there. So one of the questions that I had and is are you a cyclist yourself?

Speaker 4: 15:45

I'm an aspiring cyclist. I'm a fan of cycling, I own a bike, I can ride that bike. I've ridden to short distances. So currently my role with the burn is the still experience for manager. I come on board for a few months and do what I can to show the guests a great time. But for a couple years I worked full time for the bourbon burn as their development manager. So I helped the team of two, molly and Austin, the co-founders who run the event. I helped them with a lot of the bourbon stuff but also kind of managing marketing and registrations and communications.

Speaker 4: 16:12

But pretty quickly we found our roles and more or less they stuck with the biking side and I stuck with the bourbon side but, I, learned a whole lot about cycling and all things cycling and I was fascinated by it and I wish I kind of jumped in a little more with both feet. But I'm a fan who's aspiring to do more. I can find the cassette on a bike now, which is something I certainly couldn't do three years ago. I know what a salsa is, so I know a lot more about biking than I did before and I hope to do more in the future.

Speaker 3: 16:40

Well, if you have any time, we're gonna be there. You're happy to join us for a short ride.

Speaker 4: 16:45

I'm kind of busy during the burn that burns out the time for me to hop on a bike.

Speaker 3: 16:50

You've got it. You got to do I don't know, on the road, research or something, for you know an hour. That's true, I can handle the casual.

Speaker 4: 16:56

I can handle the casual, the maniacs who do the century, a hundred and plus miles.

Speaker 2: 17:00

Oh 610 6,000 feet of climb. I remember last year you asked people, you said, you said and, by the way, just just to be clear, what we're talking about is the bourbon country burn. This is a cycling event at the end of September, beginning of October. It's a three-day weekend of 250 plus miles, if you want to, or more, if you want to do the century and or or less, which what you just said.

Speaker 4: 17:23

You might be too busy, I'm thinking, maybe it's a ride, not a race, so it's casual. Yeah some of the we are with the feedback we get, it some of the best. Support stops anyone seen on any ride.

Speaker 2: 17:32

And I would agree.

Speaker 4: 17:33

Registrations opening and we do it every fall three days at the Kentucky Horse Park campground, right out of Lexington, some of the most beautiful Riding you'll ever see.

Speaker 2: 17:41

I would definitely agree with that. Some you know, I actually grew up in southern Illinois when I was a young kid and we would go to Paducah, kentucky, and I remember going there all the time, but I just don't remember like horse farms and things of that nature. So my first day last year last year was our first year at the bourbon country burn and something we said we definitely had to come back to. But the double white fences, I mean the roads are just absolutely smooth. They're a little bit narrower than Michigan but they're a heck of a lot smoother than Michigan, but just the absolute beauty.

Speaker 3: 18:12

And then the everything was changing colors and so that that first day I just have a vivid memory of that and so that was just absolutely beautiful and the motorists Extremely considerate oh good, the cyclist, which we've been to a lot of places where the motorists would just soon not see us on the road, but when we were there, I mean, they were extremely Courteous to us and it was awesome, tremendous.

Speaker 2: 18:38

So all right. So just so I understand. So you started with bourbon country burn, kind of helping them launch, or or someone around there and no they've been.

Speaker 4: 18:46

They've been going for a few years and they had job.

Speaker 4: 18:48

Yeah, I worked for a tour company in Louisville hosting daylong bourbon trail tours visiting distilleries and horse farms and all that stuff. And when it was time to flat my little, fill wings and grow, I joined Molly and Austin, who I knew previously, and as they were looking to grow and the event grew and they needed Another set of hands and that's some also to bring some new ideas like the VIP tasting and some of the distillery stuff as they Continue to grow and did that for a couple years and I said, gosh, I am so inspired but we guys do by starting your own event, I'm ready to jump on my own and start a business completely devoted to hosting, with the adventures of all shapes and sizes Cool, that's cool, they said they said will you come back every year and help us do the burn?

Speaker 4: 19:27

I said you bet your sweet britches I will. So I still there's still like a top client. So it feels like reuniting with friends and family every fall when we when I come back and bring these experiences to life.

Speaker 2: 19:38

And go ahead.

Speaker 3: 19:39

Michael, I apologize now one one thing I noticed in doing my research. I love research. I've researched is good, I Guess. Let me back up before I get to that question. How exactly did you get started in whiskey and bourbon? What's your origin stories with whiskey and bourbon?

Speaker 4: 19:58

Yeah, so my youngest memory was that my mother was Worked a makers mark and she was dipping bottles in the red wax when she went to labor with me. No, that's not, that's true. That's all, that's all. Yeah, I was like this is incredible.

Speaker 3: 20:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 20:17

I came about it the way a lot of people do. You know, I it wasn't Drawn to whiskey in college or the early days of my drinking, and then I had the misfortune of kind of mish-mashing all Whiskey, scotch, irish whiskey, Canadian whiskey, bourbon altogether. And so I figured if it, if this tastes like Johnny Walker, everything's gonna taste like Johnny Walker. And scotch was never for me too smoky, too peaty. And then it wasn't until about 15, 18 years ago that I started being introduced more to bourbon and I realized this is what I enjoy, these are the notes I enjoy, that corn whiskey, those full flavors, the sharp notes, the rye notes. And Then the more I dug into it, the more I couldn't get enough of what we truly call America's native spirit, with its incredible connection To America's past. How you have both a beverage class and a country that grew up side by side, the amazing characters that are larger than life but completely real, who shaped a lot of the bourbon industry and the things they've contributed from, you know, 1870 to today and even further back to 1795, when you talk about stuff like Jacob Beam who founded the beam brand, and Everything in between. So it's this great way for me to dig in to elements.

Speaker 4: 21:32

I enjoy history, whiskey, the alcohol process, making the business side of it. You know there's so much to love about bourbon and it's such a pleasure. It's the thing I look forward to every time I get a chance to do. It is to stand in front of a crowd, whether I'm leading a whiskey tasting, whether I'm leading a presentation on the history of it, or whether I'm in front of a Torbos and and talk whiskey. So that's why I called the business Phil Talks whiskey, because that's what I do, that's what I like to do and, by the way, I have to be selfish here and give you a plug.

Speaker 2: 22:02

So if you want to learn more about Phil, go to PhilTalksWiskeycom.

Speaker 4: 22:08

So the website's terrible. Follow me on social media. That's far more social media better. Yeah, the website needs a looky look and overdue looks. See. Fair enough, it was built to accommodate Internet Explorer 3.0 and other no kidding, but it's, it's not the best. I'm just kidding so when you're, when you're one-man show, you know it's hard to make time for the thing, Making sure your websites. Today I am on social media at Derby City, phil on Twitter and the old Instagram.

Speaker 3: 22:38

Okay, well, we're a two-man show and we have trouble with it. So you know, I understand both of us.

Speaker 4: 22:44

You know, but you have some wanky shirts and and well sure, it doesn't mean we don't have money, I mean right.

Speaker 2: 22:52

I mean or credit, I mean right.

Speaker 3: 22:54

That's the same thing, right we even just to let you know, when we went to the, we went to the Atlanta Right or the Georgia ride bike ride across Georgia. He knows his, he knows his rides.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 23:08

We actually had some, some bottles that we had with special labels put on cycling men of leisure and then the date From one of our regional distillers here in Kansas City. So we took those down there and shared with people Regers okay so, so I wish my whiskey stories was as cool as yours.

Speaker 2: 23:28

Mine is. My wife and I were married in February of 2017. Her aunt ran some of the Blackstone hotels at the time. She said I'm gonna get you guys a nice hotel for your, for your night of your marriage. And we went down to the lobby and it said bar. We walked in. We thought we were gonna get ourselves some sort of fruity, fruity cootie drink. Well, a little did we know it was a whiskey cocktail bar, hey. And so that is my introduction, and it might as well have been an IV line straight to my heart, because I started that night with Knopp Creek Rye and and I was Christmas time you know, still wintertime and it was a Star star anise and clothes muddled together and I watched the guy stir it and like a fancy cocktail and I said, oh my gosh, I don't know what I'm having. That was it and it, and you can see behind me I know a podcast, you can't see a picture. But since then it's grown its own, a life of its own.

Speaker 4: 24:23

So that's a great story. That's not a bad story. You're like a Bugs Bunny with, like the heart palpitating out of his chest when he falls in love with the that's right.

Speaker 2: 24:31

That's a wonderful whiskey adventure story and she loves it just as much as I do. As a matter of fact, this is now twice in a row I'm coming to Kentucky. We were supposed to go together, but my wife's a nurse and the schedule didn't work out. She's like, oh, now you're gonna go to Kentucky again without me, but it's definitely something for us. You mentioned the history. Yeah, that's something that we absolutely enjoy. When we go to some of the distillery tours, when we do our cycling rides, we usually like to find a distillery. Now in Kentucky that's extremely easy. The heart martyrs like Bragg and and some of the other places we've been. But we, we found them. We find one, yeah, we'll find it, and then we usually support that place and usually buy a bottle, and then it's really just amazing to hear. Now, the only problem is that sometimes, taking the tour, when they'll say who knows the recipe for bourbon, who doesn't? Ever, I don't really say anything anymore because I and the first couple times I'd be like, oh, yes, oh, that you know, charred open.

Speaker 4: 25:30

I Bite my tongue so hard. I'm just Phil Smith.

Speaker 2: 25:40

Yes, are you supposed to chug this? You know, or you know?

Speaker 4: 25:44

What have you stumbled across on your bike rides, bike adventures, that really, oh, that you the absolutely loved the we.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Well, we went to the foundry, which was.

Speaker 3: 25:53

That was really cool, and and one of them, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 25:58

I mean that's right, yeah, but foundry was in Des Moines and then.

Speaker 3: 26:02

Down in Georgia and Boine of Vista, we went to Silver Fox, swamp Fox, swamp Fox.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Yeah, and then one of the ones which Phil probably knows about this, because I tell us to other people they don't believe me that Cesarack has actually picked up on is three oaks, michigan and, and they have actually. You know they have like not a king rye and and Some of the others, but Cesarack has actually invested in and now distributing.

Speaker 4: 26:32

So Don't sleep on Michigan whiskies and rye's.

Speaker 4: 26:35

I will say yeah, you know because they saw a rise no, because If you were to listen to the talking points of the Kentucky distillers association, they would do everything they could to convince you that the bluegrass state is the optimal spot for making your whiskey, and anywhere else Is gonna fall flat on its face. And you know, there's some states like Hawaii where you don't have temperature variation, so it's really hard to age your whiskey. But Michigan Michigan's a pretty good place to make, age and and create whiskey. It's got it's got a lot of what you need.

Speaker 2: 27:05

So the Water is what we always hear from Kentucky every time we go somewhere, like we were in Tampa and and they tried to Horse soldier said, you know, we went to a restaurant there and they said that they tried to make Bourbon in Tampa and they said that they just didn't work out because the water wasn't the good quality. So yeah.

Speaker 4: 27:26

So there's there. Like with all things, whiskey, there's a grain of truth. We like to say we like our whiskey in the rocks and our whiskey stories are the pinch of salt kind of in there. So certainly Kentucky has amazing water. You hear about the limestone filtered, where it's a very porous rock and we have a large aquifer system and it filters out the, the stuff you don't want, and infuses with iron and that's great.

Speaker 4: 27:47

But a lot of the large Kentucky distilleries aren't well fed. They don't take it from a local lake. But even if they take it from the Ohio River, that's still that limestone filtered water and this still goes through an osmosis system. The point is valid because you go to Florida I can remember staying at a hotel around Walt Disney World as a kid Go to wash my hands in the bathroom sink and I can almost smell the water because it's it's got so much methane and different stuff in there. So if you want to set up a distillery in Florida, the first thing you got to do is invest a whole lot of money on a filtration and osmosis system to make sure that the water that's available to you is any good for making whiskey. Because, just like beer, what's the number one ingredient in whiskey? What's the one you use the most of water?

Speaker 2: 28:26

water.

Speaker 4: 28:27

So, whether it's limestone filtered or amazing city water which we have in Kentucky, if you don't have a good water source, you're already three steps behind. You already made it that much harder on yourself. And what does Michigan have? Endless great water? Yeah, we have lots of water.

Speaker 2: 28:38

Yeah, that's.

Speaker 4: 28:39

We also got these lakes that are fantastic or grand or something like that, all around you.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Yeah, we, we call them. You know something? I'm just kidding, but we always make a joke here no sharks, no hurricanes, although recently we've had a lot of tornadoes but you know, one of the other distillers who went to was Templeton rye, and my funny story about Templeton rye was that was 2018, rag bright. We go through and I come home and I'm like, oh yeah, we wrote the distillery because they have this beautiful barrel statue with with a American flag at the top, and then so you know, you get done with something on adventure like that. You've kind of become closer to.

Speaker 4: 29:15

I know exactly where this Story is going and so I'm at cost you turn the bottle over.

Speaker 2: 29:19

Yeah, I did Keep going. I don't want to ruin it for your list. All right, I turned the bottle over and it says bottled in in Iowa, I don't know, distilled in somewhere earlier Indiana, somewhere Indiana.

Speaker 4: 29:34

Midwest Grand Producers, mgp Indiana, and I'm like.

Speaker 2: 29:37

What? What do you mean? I was like heartbroken because I thought, there, I was there. But now I understand that they are beginning to make it there, so, so, anyways, I just wanted to share that story right went through Templeton Iowa. It did.

Speaker 4: 29:52

Yeah, yeah it must have been a good day for the people, Templeton rye. That's why more business and they see in your ever oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:57

I'm sure they sold jerseys and Huge white tent with hay bales and and make sure you're certain, all sorts of you know, whiskey cocktails and oh yeah, they're a good day. Yeah, I'm sure they did.

Speaker 4: 30:11

They're one of the larger rye sellers. They're, you know, outside of Kentucky. They're one of the larger. I guess it'd be fair to call them bottler of rye whiskies, and you see their stuff in a lot of states.

Speaker 2: 30:22

We, we have a lot we do. Yeah, we do have. We do have Templeton rye here, and then Recently I've seen their four year and some of the six year bottled in a different bottle then. So they either change the bottle or or something. But but, yeah, that's that's. Definitely. One thing I wanted to ask you is is Can you tell us about the stave and thief society? Well, we were we were searching you on the on the worldwide web and and I am thoroughly Convinced.

Speaker 3: 30:50

as soon as he brought this up I thought he was joking and I was like, come on, if I was a conspiracy theorist, that group sounds like they should be right next to the Freemasons and you know some other group as being one of those secret societies that's run in the world. I didn't think it was real and then he showed me it's like okay, this is, it just sounds suspicious.

Speaker 4: 31:10

I've said too much already. As a matter of fact, they might be watching me now. Connection where's my recording that's?

Speaker 2: 31:20

right.

Speaker 4: 31:21

What can I tell you? What would you like to know?

Speaker 3: 31:23

So, um well, go ahead. I think what I want to know is you do have some kind of credentials with the whiskey thing. You didn't just wake up and say you know, I'm learning a lot about it, I'm an expert, I read about it that you know you are associated, I guess executive bourbon steward through this society that sounds great.

Speaker 4: 31:45

I put up my business cards and everything. So one of the biggest challenges we have in the whiskey industry for people who want to show their metal, to show that they know what they're talking about, is we lack any type of universally accepted certification like a sommier and wine or some other industries have. And there's people trying, but and there's always ways to learn more. Don't confuse what I'm saying. There's not resources or classes or ways to have more, but this group called Flavor man and they are a company out of Louisville who adds different flavors to everything from Gatorade competitors and the such.

Speaker 4: 32:23

This guy, who is very forward thinking, saw the rise in bourbon and saw the slacking, so he started something called Moonshine University. Isn't that a great name, moonshine University? It's just out of Louisville and they started offering all these courses and one great thing they do that's a week long. They have five days, seven days, 10 days, and they'll teach you how to become a master distiller. They'll teach you the art of either warehouse management, how the art of sensory experiences, how to become a master distiller, and they have a fully functioning. Still. My knowledge is the only one in Kentucky that's licensed for educational purposes only, so almost everything they make has to be poured down the drain it can't be sold commercially, and so the offshoot of this is the Stave and Thief Society, and when I heard about this I jumped at it.

Speaker 4: 33:08

So the first thing that almost I'd recommend anyone can do, because it's informative, it's well done and it's inexpensive is to become a certified bourbon steward, and that covers all the basics of bourbon and that gives you enough of a talking point, a well-rounded knowledge and enough to correct other people when they say malarkey, bogus, like oh, bourbon has to be made in Kentucky, and you can say no, I was a certified bourbon steward.

Speaker 4: 33:30

I can tell you that is 100% not true. And then if you're looking for something a little more professional and they do this for restaurants who want to make sure their whole staff is certified they do this for educators. The course I was in was with a couple old buddies who were celebrating union. There was people who worked in the industry who wanted to get it. It's called an executive bourbon steward and it was a fair amount of money.

Speaker 4: 33:49

It was a full day, but I learned more in that one day than I've learned in any one spot at any one time. It's called the executive bourbon steward and the educators and the instructors were incredibly well versed and knowledgeable, had experience, and it is for my money. This is just one man's opinion. It's the closest thing we have right now to a universally successful certification that you know what you're talking about when it comes to the world of bourbon whiskey, and I've had it for about five years and I'm thinking about going back and doing it again just because I learned so much in that one day, and there's always more to learn and see what else I can get. That's cool.

Speaker 2: 34:21

That is cool. I mean we've definitely been at some distillery tours where you know the guide will ask a question, he or she, and they'll say, well, does bourbon have to be made in Kentucky? And I know the answer is no, but I don't say anything, I don't want to ruin it for somebody else. I would bet you, 90% of the time everyone says, oh yeah, it's got to be made in Kentucky. And so I think there's a lot of myths out there. People spread.

Speaker 4: 34:47

And I host a presentation called Shattering Commonly Held Myths and Bourbons Shattering Commonly Held Myths and Misconceptions about Bourbon. And you know some of them are basing it on others like, oh, I could have sworn that was true. No, not true at all. And oh, fallacies persist. People believe it's true and, to be fair, there's a whole lot of distillers who would benefit having you believe that Bourbon could only be made in Kentucky.

Speaker 3: 35:09

Yeah, yeah, that's true, absolutely.

Speaker 4: 35:12

And for listeners who don't know if it could be called bourbon, it only has to be a product of the United States. It only has to be made anywhere in America, from Guam to Maine. If you do all the other rules, you can call it bourbon.

Speaker 2: 35:22

I knew that, but I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 4: 35:25

Your listeners may not, they don't.

Speaker 2: 35:27

I guarantee you a lot of them don't. But you just called them all idiots. No, no, no, no no, I would never.

Speaker 3: 35:34

That was Adam, not Michael.

Speaker 2: 35:37

You know, one time we made a well, a few times actually, we made a. You know, we misspoke about something. We go back in the next episode and we'll say, hey, you know so, and so wrote us and we made a mistake. And and so one time we fat fingered a number and it was supposed to be 20,000 and we said 2000. And this lady said I think you better listen to that again. And so the next show. I just, I just berated Michael and said, oh, don't you get me in trouble again. You misspoke the very next episode. I said something so stupid. This lady wrote me. She said, adam, we really like you on the show, but you were dead wrong. Wow, hey, better.

Speaker 4: 36:11

You have listeners and criticize the no listeners at all.

Speaker 2: 36:14

That's right.

Speaker 4: 36:14

Let me, let me, let me tell you your trivia knowledge. Right, so this will be multiple choice. So the question is how long must bourbon be aged in that brand new, used once, never used again, charred o container in order to be called bourbon? Is it eight years? Does it have to be aged? We called bourbon four years, two years or no age statement. How long does it have to be to be called bourbon?

Speaker 2: 36:39

I would like to say the answer is four. I think it's four.

Speaker 4: 36:43

The answer is zero years.

Speaker 4: 36:44

Really I didn't know that when they laid out the rules of bourbon by law in the mid sixties they couldn't agree on a length, so they decided to not put it on there at all. So four years is right in that. That's the commonly held minimum aging length for quality bourbon Jim Beam, evan Williams, old forester, aged at least four years, probably not much longer, but about four years. And then I treat you a little further, because if you want your bourbon to say straight bourbon whiskey on their Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey, which many have, that's a two year requirement. So if you want to have that certification of straight, it says two.

Speaker 4: 37:17

But as Jimmy Russell loves to say and I think this is a great way to think about it, jimmy Russell, of course master's still a wild turkey been there. I just checked he's been there 197 years. So he likes to say if you follow the procedure and make it with the right mash bill and you have it come off the still and you have it go down a brand new charred oak shoot, because the law doesn't say barrel, it says charred oak container. So you have it go down a charred oak shoot. Thereby the new make is making contact with the wood and go right into a bottle. Technically, what you've made there is bourbon. It'll be clear as day. It'll taste absolutely horrible, but because there's no age statement of how long it has to be in contact with the wood, if you follow all the other rules, you've technically made bourbon.

Speaker 3: 38:00

Wow, wow See there we there we learn something. It's happening on, just so we can educate ourselves. All right, we got to go.

Speaker 2: 38:06

No, just kidding. Wow, that's cool. I didn't know that. I would have considered that just to be white dog, but I guess that makes sense. I mean, it touched the. It touched the charred.

Speaker 4: 38:17

Of course it's in practical because you'd have to replace the shoot every time because it's a charred new oak, so as soon as you stopped using it you'd have to put a new one in there and it'd be garbage product, which is another practical, that's another thing that manufacturers of bourbon wouldn't necessarily want you to know, because then they want you to think well, we've been aging this for four years, or whatever.

Speaker 4: 38:39

Two things. We've been doing something interesting lately. They put out these limited releases and they're doing a bit of a throwback, but it's confusing and they're telling you on the label how old it is in terms of months. So they've got one that's like 17 years. So it's like 142 months. So you've got people in liquor store aisle with their calculator out Figure. I mean this sounds like a lot of months. And it's like 17.3 years and it's like a, because 100 months is something used to see in the 70s and early 80s. So they're there.

Speaker 2: 39:09

That's cool. I didn't know that Last year you had makers mark and you're having makers mark again.

Speaker 4: 39:16

We are. It's going to be even better this year too.

Speaker 2: 39:18

I know you gave him a fancy bag away I didn't get a bag last year, but anyway. So I liked how they were doing their stave, different staves and different, different bottles. And the gentleman said well, why didn't we do nine months? I don't know, it didn't work. Why don't we do seven months? Didn't work, but eight months worked great. So there was no real, no real method to the madness there.

Speaker 4: 39:42

So that's Chaz and Chaz Fister and that he really is embodying the spirit of the Samuel's family. And they've got a lot of hard and full wrap, hard and fast rules about what they'll let people, the people in the lab, the people who do experiments about and do and not do when it comes to makers mark, and they don't care much about numbers, they care about what works. So there's usually not much significance when they tell you a number other than we try to 10 other ways and this, we figure this is what works best. They're really big on that and that's why makers mark doesn't carry an age statement, because they figure it's ready. When we say it's ready, we don't want you to worry too much if it's a six year or eight year or 10 year. Whisking, that's cool.

Speaker 2: 40:22

No, that's so. This year we're joining you for the Old Forester and Buffalo Trace, as we mentioned. So, we're pretty excited about the Old Forester. I mean I've got the 1870 and blah, blah, blah 1910 behind me.

Speaker 3: 40:38

I absolutely Look at that.

Speaker 4: 40:39

There you go, there you go, I see it, yes, nice. I'm drinking tonight the Old Forester 1910 from the Whiskey Rose series, not just because they'll be at the burn in our VIP tent, but because I love this bottle. I love this bottle so much. One of the great things about my role is I get to be friend to all and loyal to none. That's awesome. Old Forester certainly doesn't give two hoots if I like their whiskey, but I certainly don't have whiskey offending anyone either. So I like what I like and I get to celebrate great whiskey with no ulterior motives.

Speaker 3: 41:10

Yeah, I think last year you made some comment about you were what Bourbon or whiskey, switzerland, or so you made some comment.

Speaker 4: 41:16

Bourbon, switzerland, friend to all, loyal to none.

Speaker 3: 41:19

And there we go. That's awesome.

Speaker 4: 41:21

Yeah. So you'll love the Old Forester Whiskey Rose tasting we're doing. We've got brand new master taster, melissa Rift, who's been on the job since November. I've known Melissa for years in her role at other distilleries and she is sharp and intelligent and a great person to lead a whiskey tasting fillet role master taster, and we're going to taste through the Whiskey Rose series and Old Forester talk about whiskey history. Their history is so thorough and legitimate. Some of these brands come in start tossing out numbers that might as well been pulled from the backside, but Old Forester's got a really robust and long history, so that'll be a really fun one I think you guys are in for a treat.

Speaker 2: 42:01

I wanted to know.

Speaker 4: 42:02

So anyone who's listening, there's still time Sign up. Join us at the Bourbon Burn this year, september 28th to the 30th.

Speaker 3: 42:09

Well, I did want to say, phil, not to slight you, but we would take. You are in fact hosting one of the VIP events. That's what I hear, that's what they tell me, yeah, yeah and.

Speaker 2: 42:20

I would start preparing, sir, just kidding, yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:24

Right, some notes Dan You'll do okay, yeah. It'll be fine. You know we were thinking about taking yours, but we've got a lot of our friends coming in, so we're having a cycling men of leisure little get together at our campsite.

Speaker 4: 42:37

So we had to keep it open.

Speaker 3: 42:39

So we didn't want you to think we were to slight you, because you did host one last year which was a blind tasting, which was actually really cool.

Speaker 4: 42:47

Oh, I do blind tastings a lot. It is amazing what happens when you take the label away, when you take the brand stories away, when you take your expectations away and you got nothing but what's in your glass, your sense of smell, your sense of sight, your sense of taste, of course, and a few good hints. At almost every single time I've hosted a blind tasting with four or five pours. It's not the expensive bottle that wins, it's so rarely the most expensive bottle that wins. That was a lot of fun last year.

Speaker 3: 43:13

It was a lot of fun. It wasn't the most expensive bottle last year either, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:19

I think what was fun about that is everyone guessing around the room and you get a bunch of bunch of men and women, both you know who think oh, I know what this is, and you are saying and what is it? And what is it, what is it? And they were on the room, was like answer, you're like nope, close, but no.

Speaker 4: 43:35

So usually there's a few people who get it right and the most amazing thing is watching your senses come to life, because those who know it whenever I do these, they know it, they're confident, they're not even really guessing. They'll say this is bullet, this is Russell's Reserve tenure, and they know it either because they're a fan or it's got a distinguishable taste. And then you get just some off-the-wall guesses, which are fun too. I did one at a lovely venue called the Kentucky Castle, which is just outside of Lexington. It's a beautiful hotel that looks like a castle and I host whiskey events there somewhat regularly and we did a blind tasting and it was the best 10-year bourbons on the market. You can get, best bourbons aged 10 year and this guy was in the front row writing down notes like he was studying for a finals and you know molecular biology, and he got three out of four right and he wasn't too far on the last one, that's. That was so very impressed. He got him on the head.

Speaker 2: 44:27

So well, I'll tell you that the Google bots are working in your favor because, well, while doing doing research for tonight and trying to be prepared, I did see that and you had a little bit of a wink all that night of that right that one's coming up, that's what I'm doing a week from Friday on September 8th. Yeah, but that's not the, that's not the Kentucky Castle. Yeah, I do.

Speaker 4: 44:50

I do a series of the cast. Okay, I'm there a few times a year, so that one's gonna be. We're entering Bourbon Heritage Month in September and that we're gonna do a history then and now, brands that have been around for a long time and they're modern-day equivalent and I am lucky enough because the Kentucky Castles are great partner they've got a bottle of old rip band rip, ten-year-old.

Speaker 4: 45:11

Yes yes yes, I always stumble over this because I want to call it what the bottle calls it, but it years of exposure. I always want to call it Papi 10, but it's not Papi 10 yeah, it's older bandwinkle tenure, but it's so. There's so many similarities and people love to put it all together. Anyway, older bandwinkle part of that size regular hard to find. So I think we're getting a good crowd because it's one people want to try oh yeah, that's.

Speaker 3: 45:34

That's a great test and the best thing is guess who else gets more of the tasting?

Speaker 4: 45:37

I get to. I get to know these.

Speaker 2: 45:39

There you go, I don't.

Speaker 4: 45:40

I don't. When I go on the Bourbon Trail tours, I don't trust the tour guides who don't drink in the tasting. I don't, I don't. I give a. Give us a side, I too yeah, I, I could see that.

Speaker 2: 45:49

I mean I say the same thing like I wouldn't trust a person just drink coffee, just, you know, just joking hey hey hey, oh oh, you don't drink coffee, yeah we, our friendship goes way back. But the other thing that the Googlebot picked up is you have a class coming up September 20th, as you mentioned it before, where you're gonna shatter popular popular myths about Bourbon, whiskeys and this university, cincinnati yes yeah, boy, that Google's to me favorites.

Speaker 4: 46:18

Yeah, the universities tonight. They reached out to me last year and I've done a series of classes for their, you know, like continuing education. So the adult, the classes, so down the hall for me as a woman teaching people how to make ricotta cheese and down the hall the other way as a guy teaching you conversational Spanish for your trip to Costa Rica next year. And we did a whole series on the history of Bourbon and the bad boys of Bourbon. And the most popular one we did we kicked it off last year was shattering popular myths in Bourbon and we had a full house. So we're gonna do a whole false series and we're starting with that one.

Speaker 4: 46:51

And I love it because this is very different than the tastings, because you know, as you might imagine, university setting, the bottles are display, only we don't taste a lot. But they come curious, they come with a lot of questions and it's largely an audience that doesn't know anything about Bourbon. So it's like clean slates where I get to put their mind. And the interesting thing, a lot of them come in with preconceived negative notions about you know. I mean it's like they saw a Western once where a guy got a half glass, poured his phone over and did a shot and threw to the ground because it was rock-cut, and then challenged them to a duel and that's their impression. So these classes are great because it really gives me a chance to share some knowledge that people may not have about.

Speaker 3: 47:30

Bourbon. I think if you want to have a lot of fun, you just put all three of those classes in together. Sure, a little ricotta cheese, a little bourbon and a little Spanish.

Speaker 4: 47:38

Now, as Bourbon fans, I think this is when you'll agree with one of the things I shatter, one of the myths I shatter, especially for the novice shopper or someone who's going to buy a bottle's gift that if you see a number of Bourbons, or even from a Bourbon brand, to hire the number on the bottle, meaning the age of the bottle, and the higher the number, the age statement of the bottle does not mean the better the bourbon that's, the biggest policy in myth that just because it's a larger number, saying how long is this age, that it's going to be, the better bourbon.

Speaker 4: 48:07

The bigger number means one thing, and one thing only universally.

Speaker 2: 48:10

Marketing.

Speaker 4: 48:11

You're going to pay more. Exactly the bottle that's deeper, the P, the price, part of marketing.

Speaker 2: 48:18

I agree with that 110%. So a little history here for not only our listeners but you, phil. Michael, when I met him, was heavily into wine and took me to Cooper's Hawk and things like this, and I said, why don't you drink something real like bourbon? And, as you mentioned, like you know, like ah, throw a wee-haw, throwing down the glass and everything else. And Michael, you weren't at that point but you had good gravy. You had said that you had thought it was all just really hot until you started experimenting and everything. And so our friendship has actually bonded because I'm like no, and so we'd sit and talk and and then he came to Michigan and we may or may not have gotten really good and had a good time with our friendship in the garage with a couple cigars and there you go, so you know, and then Blanz is hard to get, and so I had an extra bottle as a gift, I gave it to him and we opened one up here too, and just to just to be able to share it, and that's where I agree.

Speaker 2: 49:17

Going back to you know, what Freddie said is it doesn't do any good inside of a glass bottle. Sure, the bottle looks nice, looks nice on the shelf, but it's those memories that you make and that's really what's. It's just priceless to me.

Speaker 4: 49:29

So yeah, I think he says that a lot. I think, as people come up to him and they say, because it's Buffalo Trace, they say, freddie, I got my hands on a Papi 23 and I'm never gonna open that. And Freddie will say, no, open it. I have some friends over. Create an amazing night, yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:46

Well, what's?

Speaker 4: 49:46

interesting man I have. Some of the best memories I've had have been not the locale but the people. I've had some great pores and some not very scenic spots, and I can think of five great nights in garages off just the top of my head.

Speaker 3: 49:58

So Well, that's the beautiful thing about when we cycle, especially on the long, multi-day, week long or cross-state type things we always take some, some bourbon with us after the ride, after we've eaten, after we showered, you know, we pull out our chairs. We do occasionally get a cigar out and we pour some bourbon and if there's people around, we invite them over and I mean just sitting around having some bourbon, just chatting with people. That's really for me one of the best parts of the ride is just kicking back and meeting new people and sharing the bourbon. A lot of times they have, you know, bourbon. They'll bring it out and we'll just all kind of share it, share it around.

Speaker 3: 50:33

But going back to what you said, that you're right, man, that's perfect. I was a wine guy and it was all hot. But I would say to anybody who hasn't really got into bourbons, who maybe like wine or like some of the other stuff, I realize that if I took kind of the patience and the methods and tasting wine that I did with like bourbons and whiskies, that's when I started realizing that they weren't just all hot and burning. You know, I actually took my time, tasted it, let it roll over the tongue, smelled it just a lot of the same stuff I would do with wine. And then I realized and I started enjoying it a lot better. Before I was just like it's gonna be hot and I was just drinking it but I wasn't really taking it all in. So once I realized to start applying kind of the methods that I was using to taste wine and apply that to the bourbons and whiskies, that's when I really started enjoying it.

Speaker 3: 51:29

So if you don't like bourbons and whiskies, or you haven't really got into it. Take your time, really, you know.

Speaker 4: 51:36

I like your similarities and comparing breaking into wine and breaking into bourbon and the one challenge that I think I have with people who are new to bourbon or new to whiskey in general is, like you said, that heat, that hot, and it's very important to differentiate hot and burn, as bad whiskey burns. Bad whiskey is, oh, that feeling in your chest if you're new to whiskey, if you haven't had a lot, then you feel that heat and that's a different sensation all the way down your toes. And there's a way to combat the heat put some ice in it, water, focus on the lower proof bourbons that are still quality, that around 80 proof. People often talk about basil Hayden being a great starting bourbon because it's full-bodied 80 proof, but a bad bourbon that has that burn. There's really no way to cover that up. So there's a people new to whiskey conflate the heat, which is legitimate, with the burn, and the burn is what you get in young or high proof or bad whiskey, and they're two separate things. That's important if you're new to whiskey and you're tasting it.

Speaker 2: 52:36

No, absolutely, because when you kind of get into it, then you say I'll try this one, I'll try this one, I'll try this one. I'll never forget. One night I opened it up, I'm sitting on the deck, beautiful night here in Michigan, and all of a sudden I'm like what is going on? And it was. Unfortunately it was a bad. That wasn't a great whiskey, and so I said okay, and so then that's the one I give to all my family when they come over. No, but it's been for me. It's just been fun to go down the avenue of the education and learning and trying different things, and that's where a lot of the distilleries and tastings and things of that nature are really interesting. And so, bringing it all back, we are looking forward to seeing you. It's about a month away actually. I think it's actually a month away from today.

Speaker 2: 53:31

This report you know, come out on Sunday, but we'll be in the great state of Kentucky and then weather's beautiful at that time of the year and we'll be looking forward to definitely seeing you.

Speaker 4: 53:44

there Should be a phenomenal event and a phenomenal event, and I do have one more.

Speaker 3: 53:48

If you could just give us, if I was to go out right now and just have a pour of something, what would you suggest it be? Oh gosh, that's like asking me who my favorite title is I know it's a tough one, but I'm just saying it depends on what day, I will say right now.

Speaker 4: 54:06

You're going to head to the bar, you're going to find a very well-stocked whiskey bar and because it's unique and because the bartender might have questions and you can share a pour of them, see if they don't have a pour of that Angel's Envy Rye Whiskey that's finished in those rum barrels and you can make friends and say I've got something for you to taste that's not flaking anything else, because those tweet rye notes combined with those rum notes is something for the books. So talk about a unique drinking experience and then ask if they have any elmertili and then enjoy a pour of that too.

Speaker 3: 54:40

Awesome, that's already a big one. It has one thing to go. You know it is almost an impossible question, but you know I like it, Adam.

Speaker 4: 54:47

I'm impressed by your collection of bookers there. You got there hiding on the top shelf.

Speaker 2: 54:50

Thank you, thank you, thank you. So in Michigan for the retail price for a long time was $79, and then the word went around that they were going to go up to $99, and I think they're even higher than that now, and so I started just started getting a little bit and I've got a little book up there as well, and so it's. I think it's hiding in the back and so, but I'm not afraid I open them too. So I mean it's not, they're not just, they're just not collector's items. I mean we usually get together with friends or like some recycling events, and last year in Kentucky before we brought some and share with everybody, one of the most favorite things that I have is to try to share my. I have nowhere near the knowledge that you have. I don't even try to compare.

Speaker 4: 55:32

Well, I'm just making this up as I go. I don't know if anything I'm saying is accurate.

Speaker 2: 55:39

But just the little knowledge that I have, just sharing that with, sharing that with people, that's fun for me and saying, well, try this or try that. And so people always ask me because they'll say, oh, you have a few bottles. And of course the conversation usually says, well, show them your picture, show them your picture. And so then, okay, I'll show them a picture. And someone will say, well, what is your favorite? And it's really funny because everyone thinks I'm laughing. But I take a lot of Delta flights and they always have Woodford.

Speaker 4: 56:09

And yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:10

I mean. So it's one of my favorites to go to, because every place I go is going to carry it. Does that mean I want that every time? No, but that's one of my favorites and everyone goes really Something you can have every day. Well, you asked me what I like. I gave you an opinion, so it's fun. Do you know what?

Speaker 4: 56:26

you'd love if you were a Southwest loyalist. Uh-oh, wild turkey. Really Kicking chicken. Given the bird. They're big in the wild turkey. The story goes, the urban legend goes, do you?

Speaker 2: 56:40

want to hear the story, absolutely.

Speaker 4: 56:41

Absolutely Is that the founder and CEO, and then later his successor, who was the current CEO, were such big fans of wild turkey and they were known for getting on the plane and buying drinks for a lot of people sitting around them that the rule was every plane that flew for Southwest had to have at least six bottles of wild turkey on it, just in case that one of the CEOs was or the CEO of Meredith was on it and wanted to buy around the wild turkey for everyone on it.

Speaker 2: 57:10

Wow, that's really cool. So if it was an old school SAT question.

Speaker 4: 57:14

What would you deserve as the Delta, as is wild turkey is to Southwest Airlines?

Speaker 2: 57:18

There we go. I love it, I love it, I love it it's fun though.

Speaker 4: 57:22

It's a fun hobby, it's a fun drink, it's a fun business.

Speaker 2: 57:26

It's great. I think you're doing it right. As far as I'm concerned, Tomorrow I'm going to go look at a bunch of data sheets. I'm like well, phil's going to drink bourbon or whiskey or something.

Speaker 4: 57:37

You have a podcast, I don't have a podcast.

Speaker 2: 57:39

Well, you could be a guest anytime, because this has been a lot of fun for me, that's been awesome. It will help you spread your website and social media. What yeah?

Speaker 4: 57:49

I book. You know, book me for bourbon adventures of all sorts, whether it's a corporate holiday event or private tasting. I fly around the country to do these bourbon trail tours, Trivia night, you name it, I do it. Anything evolves in talking whiskey. It's my jam, I'm happy to do it.

Speaker 2: 58:06

Well, we just, on behalf of Michael and myself, we just appreciate you taking a little bit of time out of your evening here. I did mention your September 20th, Of course you shared your social media. Is there anything else that is coming up besides bourbon country burn that you want to tell our listeners about?

Speaker 4: 58:23

One of my biggest challenges right now is how many of what I do are private events. So you know I'm sure you guys don't want to hear about the insurance company that's booking me for two days for private. So I'm working more Stay tuned because I want to host more and more publicly ticketed events that everything just come to in Louisville, lexington, anywhere in the area. I've got some ideas and some big plans so I want to do more events that are just open to everyone but outside of the burn and my upcoming event at the Kentucky Castle and the UC class. Those are the big, open, public things I have in the next six weeks or so. Perfect.

Speaker 4: 58:53

And seeing you two gentlemen, of course, at a lovely evening at the Kentucky Horse Park campground just outside of Lexington in less than a month. That's right.

Speaker 3: 59:00

We're looking forward to it and we're looking forward to seeing you and just the whole event.

Speaker 4: 59:04

Sign me and we'll get into something special. I'll bring a good bottle We'll dig into something deep we're whiskey friends. Now there's no denying it, so we'll have to make something great.

Speaker 2: 59:12

Yes, sir, I'm listening very clearly.

Speaker 3: 59:16

Well, you'll be able to find us because we're over in the campsite area, right?

Speaker 2: 59:19

behind your tents Right behind the.

Speaker 3: 59:21

VIP tent and we'll have a big flag that says you know, cycling men of leisure. So we can't be not found. Let's put it all up, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:30

If I need an alibi, that weekend's a good weekend to have an alibi, because I'll be seen everywhere. So, phil, I want to say thank you, thank you for taking your time and your stories and I hope that you know we do have listeners from every state except Wyoming. We don't get it, but we haven't got someone from Wyoming. So, point being, we have Ohio listeners so that we know that they'll hopefully they can come see you and we'll definitely going to see you in Kentucky.

Speaker 4: 59:59

So, michael, do you have I?

Speaker 2: 1:00:02

absolutely. This is great Thank you so much we definitely appreciate it. Do you have anything else, Michael?

Speaker 3: 1:00:07

Well, the only thing I have to say is today, phil is.

Speaker 4: 1:00:11

Today is a great day for a bike ride.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

Yes, thank you so much, phil.

Speaker 3: 1:00:15

Absolutely, thank you Appreciate it. Take care, guys. Thanks.

Speaker 1: 1:00:20

Thank you for coming along with Adam and Michael on Road Adventures with Cycling Men of Leisure. If you have enjoyed this, please subscribe to the show on the podcast app of your choice.