Speaker 1: 1:11

Welcome back to Road Adventures of Cycling Men of Leisure. Once again, I am Adam, and today, once again back in the virtual studio, I am joined with my good friend, mr Michael Sharp. Hello, adam, how are we doing? Good, I only said welcome back because you and I haven't done this in a long time.

Speaker 2: 1:31

It seems like a long time, doesn't it?

Speaker 3: 1:35

It's only two weeks for the listener in a long time.

Speaker 1: 1:36

It seems like a long time, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: 1:37

Because we had to record a couple back to back there really close, because you went on some vacation to paradise and whatnot. So it's been several weeks.

Speaker 1: 1:47

Ladies and gentlemen, Adam went on a cruise.

Speaker 2: 1:53

And then I went to a drug and alcohol conference which was a good time, because it was in Kansas city and you and I got to hook up and so that was kind of cool. I had dinner and some some drinks, so that was cool.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Yeah, no, I, I, I'm. I felt pretty lucky. You know, usually you go on a work trip and you go do your your conference and then you're staring at a hotel and my coworker, you got to meet her. Thank you, yep, and ironically so she came out with us the first night and she had a good time, and then the second night she's like you know what? I have a husband and two sons and a male dog. I would like to just enjoy my room and peace and quiet. She said she went up and took male dog. I would like to just enjoy my room and peace and quiet. She said. She went up and took a nap.

Speaker 2: 2:38

That was her polite way to just brush us off going. I don't need any more clowns in my life tonight.

Speaker 1: 2:44

You know what she says. She hears enough of me, don't we all? Well, moving right along, it's good to be back here in the studio with you.

Speaker 2: 2:58

It is indeed, and we've got some great stuff, I think, for the show, or a great subject for the show. Yeah, we kind of teased it last last episode. We've got a really good interview. Before we get to the interview, though, we got some business we got to take care of.

Speaker 1: 3:12

We do, we do a couple of things we got to take care of.

Speaker 1: 3:14

We do. We do A couple things. So let's go back to the time machine, and the time machine I'd like to talk about is March 7th. So March 7th we had a guest for the listener spotlight that came out while I was out of town. The show came out on the 16th of March, but on March 7th a friend of the show, our weather aficionado guy who helped us in Ragbri, Jeff. He wrote us and he says I believe I figured out the listener spotlight from the most recent show. I figured out the listener spotlight from the most recent show.

Speaker 1: 3:59

He says South Jordan, Utah, founded in 1859. Provost Trapper, there had been a group of people here about 1350, but there was no Native American population at the time of the settlement. No permanent Native Latter-day Saints settled here. It was located near Jordan River. Water was diverted for the mill and irrigation. It was in the location of 1938 bus train crash. And then he said, as you were giving clues, my initial thought was northwestern part of the country. Then, when you said it was settled by a religious group, I narrowed it down to Utah and the final place was the bus accident. I read about the history of the crash, and I know that many say it happened in Sandy Utah, but it was actually South Jordan. So I do believe that, ladies and gentlemen, I'm trying to get it here. It's not coming up as fast, I'm not used to my toys here, but and can you beat me? All I got is there you go. Great job, nice job. Jeff figured it out, got it, got it, got it. Let's see here.

Speaker 2: 5:14

On the last show we talked about some drinks that we had while we were lollygagging around Florida, some of the cool drinks and the fact that I am indeed Right here, a high roller, a high roller, bring to this coin right here. See, wow, look at that.

Speaker 1: 5:33

High roller, ladies and gentlemen, there he is from central time. High roller, high roller. Um, we had a drink. Well, you had a drink. You let me taste it and I put you on the spot during the show. Not on purpose, I try not to do that, but I asked you anything about Vermont and a fire and and and anything of this nature, and you were like well trees that will burn.

Speaker 1: 6:02

It's like a match. So um. But on Sunday Rob wrote us and Rob Menser said little clue about Michael's fire in Vermont cocktail contained in the state Vermont in the title and I don't know. Guess I wasn't wasn't picking up on that, but I looked at it and sure enough, the label says Whistlepig straight rye whiskey and bottled at the Whistlepig Farm in Shoreham, vermont. I got to say that's why I think your drink was called.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Fire in Vermont. That would explain why it was Fire in Vermont. It was Whistlepig Rye Whiskey, yeah, and there we go, fire in Vermont. It is. It's not just bottled, it's hand bottled in Vermont. That's pretty cool. So there we go. Now, you know, I didn't know that, but that's a little something we'll add to our repertoire of drink information.

Speaker 1: 7:02

So, Rob, thank you for taking a little bit to write us and tell us I like how you even said a little clue. So I was like, oh, I like clues. And then a friend of the show, johnny, wrote us. But I don't want to beat that until you give the clues. He has a guest for your latest listener spotlight. But besides that, I know I saw you how you been.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Been good. I've been good, just been busy around here with work and all the stuff that comes with spring and owning a home and all of that really fun stuff. So I do have a couple of activities that I did that I would like to get into, but I'm not going to this episode. I got a big one that I'd really like to discuss. It was interesting, okay, but I think we'll wait because the interview is a relatively long interview. So I think we should just get to listener spotlight. We'll go to the interview, we'll end up with listener spotlight and I'll just save my comments on this activity that I did for later.

Speaker 1: 8:13

Well, now that we knocked the dust off of the equipment here, we can wait a little bit to give people some guesses and we can get together for another show. My friend, absolutely All right. Well, in that case, ladies and gentlemen oh man, I am a little rough today. Wow, it is now time for Listener Spotlight.

Speaker 2: 8:40

All right. The last clues that I gave you for this episode's Listener Spotlight are as follows. This town was named for a Confederate general general. The city was laid out by the railroad in the late 1800s, and it wasn't incorporated until the early 1900s. Not only was this named for a Civil War Confederate general, one of the reasons for that is him and his soldiers actually had a camp very near where the town is now located, and so that's the reason why it was named for this Confederate general because he had a camp for a good period of time there. Locally, the railroad was built through the area. In the 1880s. The first industry to this town was lumber. In the 21st century, this town was devastated by a tornado. To 1911, the town felt the effects of a major earthquake. My final clue was this is not the smallest community we have highlighted, but it's very close, All right.

Speaker 1: 10:16

Now I do have a guess. Sorry about that it's not St Louis, oh man.

Speaker 2: 10:23

Fine. Well, they did feel an earthquake in 1911, but it's not St Louis.

Speaker 1: 10:29

So the following clue is brought to you by DeBrim Great sun protection for your helmet.

Speaker 3: 10:36

Oh geez.

Speaker 1: 10:38

Sorry.

Speaker 3: 10:39

Johnny, it never stops.

Speaker 1: 10:40

Johnny did not say that, but I figured. Today I know you and I both try to wear a cycling shirt or something that goes along with the show for the YouTube friends. You have the bourbon burn. Ooh, I am going to throw a little teaser out there. There just might be some information that I can share in a couple of episodes about something to do with bourbon burn. I'm going to leave it at that. All right, johnny has a guess. Now you got me wondering, I know.

Speaker 2: 11:17

I might have some Keeping secrets. Well, that's fine. That's fine, you know, I keep you surprised enough on the show. It's fair this one.

Speaker 1: 11:28

I'm a little sworn to secrecy, but I'm going to see if I can get some permission to share a few hints now I'm really intrigued.

Speaker 2: 11:38

I'll have to listen to the show please do.

Speaker 1: 11:41

You can find us on your local podcast. Excellent, I'll have to look that up. So, johnny Lampkin sorry, johnny, I've only said your name about five times there, but Johnny has guessed. He's guessed before. He says hey guys, I'm going to guess, listener spotlight is New Madrid, missouri, with the earthquake 1911 and cotton grown in the area. Love the podcast. Thanks for the hard work. With two exclamation points. Then he says Sykeston, missouri, which is the new Madrid County, missouri left the Sykeston out for some reason. Sorry about that. Well, my friend, how has Johnny done?

Speaker 2: 12:20

Sorry, I will give him credit.

Speaker 2: 12:26

There you go man, new, new madrid is a very, very good guess because in fact that was kind of the uh, the epicenter of the earthquake that I'm referencing in 1911. That's why I also said St Louis felt a little bit of that effect, as did Kansas City. Things were rocking and rolling and it messed up the Mississippi River for a couple of days and it was kind of a major fault line that most people don't realize. But hey, if you're not near Missouri, don't worry about it. Anyway, it is a good guess but it is not correct.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Okay.

Speaker 2: 13:06

I will. He got in there in the right area. Our listener spotlight for this episode is, in fact, marmaduke Arkansas.

Speaker 1: 13:16

Marmaduke.

Speaker 2: 13:18

Wow, yes, what a great name Up in the northeast corner of the state Name for Confederate general. It was a major general, john Sappington Marmaduke, who later served as the governor of Missouri. Their first industry was lumber, but during World War II that land was cleared for cotton production for the war effort, and half the town was destroyed on April 2nd 2008, when it was hit by a tornado. I've already told you 1911, the New Madrid Fault earthquake happened, not the smallest community. The New Madrid Fault earthquake happened, not the smallest community, but this town, as of 2020, only had 1,212 people, and one of those is our listener.

Speaker 1: 14:14

So thank you very much. Hey, that's 1,200 of a city that listens.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Well, you know, get a few more cyclists there, we can get a majority of that town to listen to us.

Speaker 1: 14:25

I love it. Well, listen, as I always do. Thank you, marmaduke Arkansas listeners. Thank you all listeners, but this time, thank you Marmaduke Marmaduke Marmaduke. Yes, is that what you said? No, I did not. You were like the big dog cartoon. You were like the big dog cartoon.

Speaker 2: 14:49

You were correct in correcting me, which happens a lot which, if I remember right, there are school mascots like the Greyhound or something, some big dog like that.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Not a corn husker like I'm seeing on your screen right now. Corn husker, no, no, all right, you are correct. No, no, yeah, all right, you are correct. This is a long episode. But listen, we have talked and we teased in the last episode that we chose not to cut anything from this.

Speaker 1: 15:14

We like the integrity. Michael and I both believe in the integrity. I actually did listen to the episode and there was nothing really that needed to be cut. It's a great episode Just to the episode, and there was nothing really that needed to be cut. It's a great episode just to introduce it. So Franklin Johnson, executive director of brag, reached out to me and said hey, I think a good interview, which he's brought us a lot of people, by the way, but he thought it'd be a good interview to interview the individuals from bike Virginia, the history of the ride, the future of the ride. And we reached out and we were pointed to the direction of a gentleman by the name of Shane Cusack and it was a great interview. So, without further ado, I'm going to play that now and we'll come back after the interview and give a few thoughts.

Speaker 2: 15:54

And one final thing he's not just involved with the ride, he also owns a bike company. Some very special people. More to follow. It'll be a great interview, that's right.

Speaker 1: 16:06

All right, here we go. Hey, Michael, we have a very special guest with us today.

Speaker 2: 16:13

We do. This is going to be really fun, really exciting, and this is one we've been working on for a while, and schedules haven't quite worked out, but we got everything in place now. So who are we talking to today?

Speaker 1: 16:25

We have a gentleman by the name of Shane Cusick and he is from Bike Virginia and Shane, could you please tell us a little about yourself? Welcome to Road Adventures of Cycling Meta.

Speaker 3: 16:34

Leisure Welcome. Yeah, yeah, thanks guys. Thanks for thanks for having me. Um, yeah, uh, bike Virginia. I've been with Bike Virginia since I started in 2009. Um, yeah, uh, bike Virginia. I've been with bike Virginia since I started in 2009. Um, and sort of the the longest job I've ever had. And, um, and I've been in Richmond, virginia is where we're based out of, uh, since 2006. And um, just a quick plug for Richmond it is a wonderful cycling community. And just a quick plug for Richmond it is a wonderful cycling community. We had the in 2015,. We had the UCI Road World Championships here, which is a big thing, and just the overall general cycling in and around Richmond is awesome. That's cool.

Speaker 3: 17:19

And all in Virginia honestly, and it's been kind of, it's been a really fun. It's been a fun ride pun intended for Bike Virginia and the whole, you know seeing the state I mean the state itself is a beautiful state the mountains, the coast, all of it in between. It's a cool place to see, especially by bike.

Speaker 1: 17:43

Virginia is for lovers, according to the license plate right. Yes it is yeah, and it's a cool thing.

Speaker 3: 17:50

At first, when I first moved here, I was like what is this? It's kind of weird. And then somebody explained it and they're like oh well, it's the lover of the mountains, the lover of the sea, the lover of the city, the lover of the country. We have it all. We love of the country. Like we have it all, like we love all of it because it's all part of our state.

Speaker 2: 18:03

That's cool. Oh yeah, virginia's beautiful Adam, I don't know, we've never talked. I don't know if you've ever been to Virginia.

Speaker 1: 18:08

I never have no.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Well, wait a minute.

Speaker 1: 18:11

Fort AP, Virginia for Jamboree.

Speaker 2: 18:13

Oh, Boy Scout National Jamboree back in the day. That's correct through Virginia many times. Never been there on a bicycle, so I think I might be missing out.

Speaker 3: 18:25

It's a cool. It's a beautiful state to see by bike, for sure Cool.

Speaker 1: 18:30

No, the only time I think I was there was for Boy Scouts National Jamboree. And to tell you how long ago that was, president Bush Sr was president and flew in and I believe the band the Jets performed. So that tells you how long ago.

Speaker 2: 18:46

I was there too, but we're not going to get into who the president was or what bands are playing.

Speaker 3: 18:50

We're just going to leave that where it's at.

Speaker 2: 18:53

So, shane, you hooked up with Bike Virginia in 2009. What's your background? How did you get involved in cycling? Have you always?

Speaker 3: 19:01

been a cyclist yeah, that's a great question. Um, and I sort of yes, I grew up cycling. I, my dad's side of the family, were big cyclists. Um, when I was young, my great uncle at I don't know I forget how old I was at the time, but he did the ride across America um ride and at the time I was just like like I was blown away. I was like I rode all the way.

Speaker 3: 19:29

Uncle Cork rode all the way across the United States. What does that even mean? And then, but we always, like my grandparents, um, they would take me on sort of like bike Virginia rides. They were one day rides in Ohio as a kid and we would go, I would hook up with them and they were all like on the old school Tempe and we would do those rides and they would be like you know, 25 or 30 mile rides through sort of the Ohio countryside. And then we as a family, every year we had the Cusick family bike ride, which was pretty cool and it was like yeah, it was like everybody and it was always at a different um, a different host every year. So, like it would be at my grandparents one year, my uncle's one year or my dad would host it um. But it was cool because the ride whoever hosted it, got to determine the route and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3: 20:30

The only requirement was that we had to have a Dairy Queen stop somewhere in the route.

Speaker 2: 20:36

Somebody who understands the power of ice cream. We are huge Dairy Queen fans.

Speaker 1: 20:42

I think we officially stopped the interview and honor Shane as an official honorary member of Cycling Men of Leisure. He is in Michael and I have been known to find a Dairy Queen after our ride. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 21:00

Yeah, and when I say family, it was everybody, it was like the babies if there were babies in the family at that time, all the way to grandparents and um, and we still sort of carried on. My grandparents have passed on um, and we we still kind of get together on my dad's side and now it's just mostly siblings and stuff, but we still try to get you know, at least once a year we'll get in and in fact I've hosted, hosted the last couple of years. I've hosted the family coming into Richmond and then we'll do a little ride out of the house. Again, it's everybody. We'll go down the river and swing by. This past year we swung by my bike shop so part of my other gig is Pelo Bikes, which is a children's bicycle brand, and we stopped in there and had hot chocolate and snacks and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 21:57

Until every family member gets a bicycle. What's that? I'm sorry. Until every family member, it's time to pony up and buy a bicycle.

Speaker 3: 22:05

Upgrade. Yeah, exactly yeah, every kid in the family has a Pelo. That's cool, Nice, it's a. Uh yeah, every, every kid in the family has a pillow. That's cool, nice, it's a free of charge when you're, when you're a sibling, cool, cool.

Speaker 2: 22:19

So. So then you could, you were doing you're heavily ingrained in cycling and then you went out and you just thought you know what I would love to be involved with a, with a some type of organized ride.

Speaker 3: 22:32

Yeah, and would love to be involved with some type of organized ride. Yeah, and good call, kind of get me back on track. So grew up cycling in a sort of cycling environment, and then it was also motorcycles. My dad was a big dirt bike guy, and so I grew up on two wheels, as I used to call it, and now it's sort of like I kind of call it my two-wheel fix.

Speaker 3: 22:56

You know, I don't really ride motorcycles anymore, although my 16-year-old son has an electric dirt bike, which is a whole other world now, but yeah, but still in the biking thing and then so progressing to the family and then life. So the bicycle has always been a thread, constant thread, throughout my life and like all the way through, you know, high school and then college and then after college and even after college. So my, my degree is landscape architecture and I was in practice. I started practicing in 2001 and then um went through and, uh, the sort of the the you guys remember 2008, 2009, oh yeah, when the economy was oh yeah and I was living in richmond at the time.

Speaker 3: 23:52

I'd sort of graduated college, got married, moved to charleston, south carolina, and was working for a firm, a landscape architecture firm, down there. And I would always sort of even though I was doing like I did some pretty cool projects like mostly master planning, like large developments and new towns and things like that but I would always try to figure out where the greenway was or where the bike parking was going to be, and I always try to thread that stuff in into the project. And then I sort of. Then I've moved from Charleston up to Charlotte and worked for a pretty big firm, a multidisciplinary firm, and from there I actually started their sort of bike commuting program where they purchased a couple of bikes and we sort of outfitted them with baskets and we were in downtown Charlotte. So the idea is that you could go to a meeting on a bike. You didn't have to get in a car and drive If the meeting was in town, you could just get on the bike and ride. We had a small fleet. I started that, which was pretty neat.

Speaker 3: 25:00

Then from there I moved to Richmond and still doing the landscape architecture thing, but then on the side I was working pro bono stuff with the National Park Service and sort of. I was a bit of a liaison between the ASLA, which is the American Society of Landscape Architects, and the National Park Service and we did a couple of greenway master plans for small communities in Virginia and this is all sort of pro bono stuff that we would kind of just you know like identify, have some meetings with them and things like that, so yeah, and then the recession came and most of our clients were developers and you guys know, the banks just were not putting any money out. And then so one thing led to another and I was like, hey, you know, like, hey, you know, like I, you know, I think I'm out and um, so I left the landscape architecture world thinking that I was going to go back to school and focus on alternative transportation in landscape architecture and then go back and teach, you know, and and do all this stuff. And and one thing led to another and this position came available with Bike Virginia and I was like, well, this is kind of a cool thing. You know, I don't have a job right now, so I could, you know, I could get the bike stuff with the advocacy side and do all this stuff mixed in and so, and at the time I was on the board for bike virginia and so I resigned from the board and became a staff member in 2009 and sort of changed my whole life trajectory, you know like, uh, it's been, it's been a great, great trajectory.

Speaker 3: 26:46

In fact, in 2016, we launched, uh, the children's bicycle brand, pelo Bikes, and we sold our first bike in May of 2016, which is kind of fun because May is bike month, so that was kind of a fun thing to do and sell my first bike. And, yeah, pelo is still rolling. That's a whole other topic. The bicycle industry on that side is like a whole other. That's a whole other topic.

Speaker 3: 27:13

The bicycle industry on that side is like a whole other world, you know, and especially right now, with all the tariff stuff and then, which is always looming, even from the first trump administration side of things, when you impose all the tariffs, so and then yet, but you know just, the economy around bikes since covid has been, you know, just kind of like, like everything's been flatlined because COVID was this big surge in bikes and purchases and then the market got saturated with all these bikes that were ordered for you know, like we were three years out on our order, yeah from our supplier and yeah, and then finally, you know that that's just kind of like say there's a whole other whole other thing to talk about.

Speaker 3: 27:56

But so bike virginia has been another thread through that whole process too, and yeah, it's been great to just sort of just be in terms of bicycles for a professional career.

Speaker 1: 28:09

So I have some friends who own a Trek bike store and told me during COVID that that some people would buy bikes because you know you could go outside. But a lot, of, a lot of it was service. They were servicing bikes and and people were getting old you know bikes that haven't been serviced in a while and and and that was a pretty helpful market. But now just to kind of resonate with what you're saying, they say that it's really difficult right now that there's either a lot of stock on the floor or just not a lot of people willing to buy expensive bicycles right now. Now it's time to buy a bike.

Speaker 3: 28:45

Now it's a buyer's market for bicycles. If you're looking for a bike, definitely bikes are still to be had. If you're looking for a bike, definitely bikes are still to be had. Some of the crazy sales like Specialized is doing 40% off their bikes and Kona Kona did buy one, get one I mean it was bonanzas. It's like the Wild West right now and it's cool.

Speaker 3: 29:08

Sort of the phrase in the bicycle you know, like in that side of the bicycle industry, is survive until 25. A lot of brands have gone out of business and yeah, it's like you know, the bicycle is always going to be there and people are always going to buy bicycles. But it's just weird, cause we had this crazy peak in COVID and then it's just been down and it's there's a lot of stuff too. It's not really down, it's just down from the COVID times. It's still even above pre-COVID numbers, but it just seems like because we have so many more bikes in the hopper. A quick side note, for that is during the first Trump administration, when he put all those tariffs up for China, the bicycle industry sort of, they didn't hit pause, but there was a lot less like as far as in the United States. There was a lot less bicycle stops as far as like being warehoused or in bike shops or things like that. And then when COVID hit because of the tariffs and stuff, and then when COVID came around, everybody wanted bikes because you could ride outside. So people were buying whatever. They were just buying and buying and buying.

Speaker 3: 30:18

And so there was already this shortage. And I'm talking like it was like about the last time. The overall stock of bicycles was about 20 years ago. Prior to that, the overall stock of bicycles was this was about 20 years ago prior to that. So you know, we had low stock, you know, in the, in the warehouses, and then everybody bought all that and then nobody could get bikes because it was just the global demand for bicycles uh went through the roof and then then everybody kind of like like did all their stuff, so. So there was kind of like did all their stuff. So there was kind of like this one-two punch in the bicycle industry from that. Had Trump not done that, then we might have had a pretty decent stock level and then COVID could have absorbed hundreds of more thousands of bicycles at that time. We'd probably still be in the same weird spot. But it's just a weird side note that the tariffs kind of things to the tariffs affect.

Speaker 1: 31:22

If you don't really no, I appreciate you mentioning it. I remember during COVID, the Shimano and SRAM everyone kept saying you know, gobble up the gears, gobble up the cables, gobble up everything because there's a shortage and so things that you know. Shimano 105, which was, I mean you could buy it on any bike in any random afternoon or whatever, so it was definitely an interesting thing. So you get involved with Bike Virginia in 2009 as a staff member and then what was the progression?

Speaker 3: 31:55

Were you just a staff member, moved up into like management, or yeah, so Bike Virginia is a pretty small organization and when I came on, kim had just sort of became she was. She became the executive director in 2008 was her sort of first round and prior to that, bike Virginia had had a lot of like I think they had, I want to say, close to 10 people working for them and various different things. So Bike Virginia at that time had grants with the DMV. They had some other stuff that they were kind of working around, but they were also like in a pretty financial not great place.

Speaker 1: 32:41

Okay.

Speaker 3: 32:42

And um, so Ken kind of came on, the old director stepped off, um, alan Turnbull, which is like he was the founder, um sort of the you know the godfather, which is, he's an awesome guy. Um, he kind of showed me the ropes. A little bit too kind of need to kind of get to have him show me how to do some signing stuff in the early days. But it was just, there was a lot of things that Virginia was involved with and it was, you know, the organization at that time. I can't do my math, but the first tour was 1988. So it was still, you know, like it had enough time to kind of reach its tentacles in a lot of things, and I think that it was just it. There's too many things out there. So when Kim came on, she kind of like, in a way sort of cleaned house and and it was just, it was her.

Speaker 3: 33:35

And when she hired me, it was me Okay, restructuring everything. At the time, you know, like, my first like virginia tour was 2010, my first actual managing the tour, and at that time it was a 2000 person tour and, um, you know, coming from a landscape architecture side, I love bikes but I'd never, you know, I'd never stepped into the realm of trying to organize 2000 people for six days out in the countryside of Virginia and that was like a whole other. That was like a whole other perspective.

Speaker 1: 34:06

Thank God we hired on. I can't imagine.

Speaker 3: 34:08

Yeah, and thank God we hired on Wayne Goodman, which is a local, kind of a local legend, and for Bicep, for Trail Building here in Richmond, for trail building here in Richmond, to sort of help with some of the IT stuff and the registration stuff which is like a whole, like you can imagine 2000 registrants with different packages and all that stuff and how all that can kind of get jumbled up.

Speaker 3: 34:30

And so thankfully he came on, he kind of handled that, kim kind of took care of all the like high level stuff and then I was sort of the route slash organizer, everything in between, and it was just a wild ride that first year.

Speaker 3: 34:46

I mean, it was just crazy and it was like it's one of those experiences that you go through and um, and maybe you guys have had those in your life where it's it's like you get in it and it's so overwhelming that you're like like time is almost still like, it seems like it's like not moving, but at the same time it's like, oh my God, that's six days ago. And I can't, you know, because when the tour is running, you know, my, my day on the tour is about, um, it's like 14, 15, 16 hours. So you know, I was part of the signage team and, um, kind of organized the signage team and kind of organized the signage team and we would start putting signs out at 4 am and then we'd pull them around 5. And then all the other stuff, logistical stuff, that would happen in the evening. I would just sort of do this route, wrap every evening and then take care of so many other things that are happening around our headquarters area.

Speaker 1: 35:46

But not fires left and right.

Speaker 3: 35:48

Yeah, and then it was like a circus and it was so funny. It's like no matter how much planning we did over all the years and I was at it for quite a few years it would always be a circus, it wouldn't matter. It was like we'd have everything like would always be a circuit, it would be like it wouldn't matter. Like it was like we'd have everything, like all the checks, everything, but then a rest stop would just like they said we can't do it. And I'm like we have like 2,000 people coming to your church. You can't do something for us, so it would just be stuff like that all the time.

Speaker 3: 36:21

And that's the thing you know, like we're, we're working with volunteers and um, and communities, and then there's, you know, then there's cyclists that are, you know, bike virginia's and probably similar demographic to all the rides we've mentioned before. But you know, you've got a wide range, so anywhere from an eight-year-old to know, uh, an eight year old. And then you got the hardcore cyclist and then you got the just the leisure riding around cyclist, the tourists, I like to call them Um, and then you got all the people that live there in the community and we're at that time when we were 2000 people, it was like a swarm. You know, we would almost swarm these communities with bikes and so we were always straight up with everybody, with VDOT, with the police, with everybody. So everybody knew that we were coming.

Speaker 3: 37:16

It wasn't like a surprise. But the residents even though it was PSA and stuff that would go out but who really listens to that stuff? Especially if you're not into cycling? And then you know people get all pissed off because there's so many bikes and they can't get to work or it takes them an extra minute to get to work. So it was an exhilarating experience to be the tour director um to be the yeah, the tour director.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Now, what's funny is, uh, shane, we've had multiple uh, uh bike event directors on our show um, from Michigan, and, and I we've had Matt from Iowa and Franklin from Bragg, and, and uh, so we've talked to a lot of them and it's amazing, they're saying exactly the same thing, even though from like Adam, and always, adam and I are always just like, oh my gosh, how does this? It seems so seamless, but they're like we're frantically behind the scenes putting out fires and solving all this, but you know what, nine times out of 10 to the cyclists. I mean, it just seems like everything's going exactly as planned. So, everything's going exactly as planned.

Speaker 1: 38:29

So we've certainly heard that many times before about that. So, yeah, the only time I ever saw a little bit of I guess I'll say anxiety was Neil, our director and a friend from Michigan. He was sitting relaxing with a bunch of cyclists from Shoreline and he said he was just relaxing and he has the ride. You know, how is everything anything I can do for you guys and we're like no, today was a perfect day and it was a beautiful weather day, the route was great, and all of a sudden he looked down on his watch and he goes okay, I gotta go, I've got 100 miles to drive and we're like 100 miles to drive and he goes. I had to go put the signs up and sure enough, you know, and that was kind of the one, the one. Maybe a time that I saw one of the directors go oh my gosh, I have, I have a job to do now, and then then we like saw him at like five in the morning.

Speaker 3: 39:14

He's like all right guys. You ready to hit the road?

Speaker 1: 39:16

and we're like yeah do you ever sleep so?

Speaker 3: 39:19

so, man, it's a wild existence and it's crazy because you know, the the multi-day tour is like mike, virginia was six days and and it was really like two weeks leading up was like pretty intense, you know, definitely like 10 hour days, usually all the way up to it, and then then almost you know like 18 hours or whatever, and then, um, but it was just like you start that first day and then you've got all the adrenaline and you're you know you're planning the thing for a year and all this stuff, and you're like, yeah, okay, all right, we're rolling. And then the second day rolls on and you're just kind of like, okay, and then by the third day I usually get like this, like, oh, and then that's, that's we. Kind of our format was we were in one place for three days and then we moved to another place for three days.

Speaker 3: 40:09

okay, so we would move all our equipment and all of our gear and and everything and start in a whole new location on the on the fourth day okay, and through that move, you just kind of like, you're just like man, you just I I could feel myself dragging and I always had it all the years that I would do this. You know, like it was just, it was this process of like cause it was just these crazy long hours and it was a mental and a physical exertion for 18 hours to be just like. Like you say, putting out fires or talking to the sheriff, or you know, like you're talking to riders doing all this stuff, why isn't the rest of us doing this? Or you know, like you're talking to riders doing all this stuff why isn't the rest of doing?

Speaker 3: 40:45

this or you know, like all these things. But then about the fifth day you start like my body would kind of acclimate to the time, and then the stress and all that stuff. And by the sixth day it's like, oh man. And then when the tour is over, I would have all this energy for like a week. I want to be you, adjust to that schedule and that intensity, and then it's like it's cut off and you're like, oh well, I gotta do something.

Speaker 2: 41:15

Now what.

Speaker 3: 41:17

Yeah, but it was a wild ride.

Speaker 1: 41:21

So I have a couple questions. The tour in 2024 took place in June, June 21st or 26th according to the website, and you said that it was six days. Normally Would it always be in June?

Speaker 3: 41:38

It was. Yes, it was always that sort of last week in June and that was sort of set up by our predecessors because that was a good time. It wasn't quite summer in Virginia, it wasn't quite, you know, winter, so you could kind of have some decent weather, usually Okay, and it also worked for school. So schools were out, oh yeah, so that allowed. You know, participants didn't have to worry about the school. If they had kids and stuff they could come to us. But then for us too, as a tour, we didn't have to worry about the schools being in session. So we didn't have to worry about school traffic and buses and, you know, high schoolers driving to school and all that sort of stuff. So that last week in June was always our sweet spot.

Speaker 1: 42:26

And then my second question would be a few times when you were saying it would, it was, it would it was does that lead to their Bike Virginia's going in a different direction?

Speaker 3: 42:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:41

Yeah, that's sort of where we're at right now. The 2025 Bike Virginia is. We had our last Bike Virginia last year and it wasn't really the Bike Virginia that we had in the past and we haven't as a tour, as far as the registrants and participants, hasn't really rebounded since covid. Um, and even like leading into covid we could see our, our yearly registrations were just, you know, just kind of slowly dropping down, but they would still hover thousand to 1500, where it was always sort of pre-covid stuff. And then once covid hit um, you know, everybody kind of like did whatever their thing was they were doing. And then when we came back two years ago with our was our first tour after covid, we didn't have that many people and we had to um, we honored all of those covid registrations. Okay, so anybody that had registered for COVID could still ride in the tour and like they had up to three years to cash in your registration. And then so that was our, that was our. You know that was a lot of our books as far as like trying to carry that through Sure. And then so we satisfied that debt or that, you know, not that debt, but just that obligation to put on the tour and then this past year, in 2024, we geared up and did some things and then it just was. You know, I think we had 450 people that registered. So it was and it's.

Speaker 3: 44:24

You know, the tour is a funny thing because it's, you know, I guess, like any business, there's an economy of scale, right. So it's kind of like we have to lay all this stuff out, whether it's 500 people or 2 000 people. It's kind of like I kind of like describe it as like when you go camping or when you go bike packing, you have to take your bag, your tent, your gear, everything you gotta camping. Or when you go bikepacking, you have to take your bag, your tent, your gear, everything you got to take everything. Whether you're going for two days or two months, you know you got to take the same stuff. So the tour is kind of like that we have to prepare it, no matter how many participants we have. I mean, we can scale certain things, of course, but as far as the overall planning goes like you know all the counties, and as far as the overall planning goes like you know all the counties and municipalities and everything that we work with. So, yeah, it was a much, much smaller tour in the past.

Speaker 3: 45:14

And so that sort of led to, you know, like, okay, we need to really look at what's going on. And you know, as we've mentioned before, cycle Oregon closed down their week tour, bike Florida, ride the Rockies, ride the Rockies yep yeah. So everybody's kind of like, all right, we've got to change, we can't. This is just not working anymore and I think a lot of it is probably. You know, you probably heard this from your other directors too but it's not just one thing but multiple things, and COVID was certainly one of those multiple pieces, that kind of. And it's funny because, you know, I think COVID also sort of shifted how we like. It kind of like j jumbled us all up as far as, like you know, culture even, and I think it led to more people just they're not doing organized rides like they used to, you know, in the traditional kind of way.

Speaker 3: 46:17

And then I think one of the bigger, bigger pieces of the puzzle is the demographic. You know the Bike Virginia sweet spot is the baby boomers. And you know the baby boomers are, you know they're sort of aging out of doing events like this and the younger generation just doesn't do this, like they just don't. You know, like, I'm a Gen Xer and I don't just I don't do these kinds of rides, I mean, you know, and then another wheel in the whole cog of this is road.

Speaker 3: 46:48

Cycling is kind of, you know, like, yeah, it's just because and and and it's, and I think it's not really the sport, it's more just the safety around. I mean, I, I'm a big biker and I used to ride my road bike all the time, but now it just kind of collects dust because I don't. And if I do ride it, I go out on our, you know, our multi-use trail, or you know, I take roads to get there. But it's just, it's a different, it's a different environment than it was in the heyday of these big bike tours. Sure, and I think you're right, I think you're right.

Speaker 1: 47:26

I think you're right. I tease my friends because I'm always like you. Guys do know that they created asphalt which is nice and smooth. You don't have to go ride your bike on the gravel. But their answer is always yeah. But if I go on the gravel roads, a 4,000-pound SUV is not going to plow me over.

Speaker 2: 47:43

And there's no guarantees. That's true.

Speaker 3: 47:52

But there are fewer of them and generally you hope that they're on the gravel road. They're not quite as distracted as if they're just going around their house or wherever.

Speaker 2: 47:56

So it's funny you bring that up because we've talked about this on many, many episodes in this show about the changing demographics, and we've been on some rides where you know we were. We were the young guys on the rides uh you know.

Speaker 2: 48:11

So we've seen that and we've seen all this. So, um, it's one of those things that we've looked at a lot. In fact, there's a ride we're doing this year that we that they originally said they weren't going to do, and then they came out and said, oh yeah, we're going to do it and it, so it's kind of looking like the last year. So we hopped on that. Just because we've done it before, it's a good ride. We thought, you know what, this is the last year we want to be involved with it. So, um, you know, I wish, I wish I could, could take what you're saying and go. That's completely ridiculous. But no, I mean, that's just really where we're at right now in cycling and everything goes in cycles. So hopefully things will start changing and those demographics will start getting younger and stuff. But you know, we're just in one of those spots right now.

Speaker 1: 48:55

I remember reading an article I'm going to. This is totally a guess maybe 15 years ago that cycling was the new golf, instead of you and your.

Speaker 3: 49:04

I remember that yeah, because they would stay was the new golf instead of you and your.

Speaker 1: 49:05

I remember that, yeah, because they would stay, you know, instead of your business partner, you and guys going golfing for the day, you would get your bikes out and go for like a trail ride together and have that, have that camaraderie on a bicycle, and and then, during covid, I think, golf just came back like like gangbusters and so, um, my career is in transportation and we actually use COVID as a defining moment. We actually say do we have pre-COVID numbers or post-COVID numbers? Because coming out of COVID, people were afraid to be on public transportation buses, you know, in confined spaces, and they were afraid. I can announce that in 2025, we were actually pre-COVID numbers and so that's great. But I know what you're saying is you're speaking right to the choir and we always wonder, like the younger generation, is it video games? Is it the fact that they just don't even want driver's licenses now, that they're fine jumping in an Uber or Lyft? We don't.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Michael and I have spent more time than I'm proud to tell you discussing. Like you know, when we were kids, we were scouts and we'd get on bikes and ride miles and miles and miles, and then, as an adult, everyone comes back to cycling for one reason or another, either they enjoy it so much. Mine was a health weight loss journey where my neighbor said hey, you should get a bicycle. I was like a bicycle. I haven't ridden a bicycle since high school and then now it's. I mean just everything, here we are, yeah. Here we are yeah we got a podcast.

Speaker 1: 50:37

I know, I know that came out of an idea of a court, cycling kind of just you know it just gets into your system.

Speaker 2: 50:45

Oh yeah, and that does you know. We've often told in this show. That's how Adam and I became friends. We met on a ride and started riding together, and now we've ridden across I don't know how many different states and how many different rides, and we go out and golfing events together and we enjoy an occasional bourbon together.

Speaker 3: 51:03

And that's not. That's not 3D, and we enjoy an occasional bourbon together. I see all the bottles in the background.

Speaker 1: 51:07

That's not 3D.

Speaker 2: 51:10

Adam's got a problem, but we're working on it.

Speaker 1: 51:13

There's a 1-800 number for that.

Speaker 3: 51:14

Yeah, there is. There's also an intervention group. Is there a Pappy back there?

Speaker 1: 51:18

I don't have Pappy, but I do have a George T Stagg, oh wow.

Speaker 2: 51:23

Oh yeah, he found a wonderful find yeah, so this is I.

Speaker 1: 51:29

I do have a nice, nice george. Oh wow, there we go, so no, papito I have had it, uh, but no, um, but yes, my, you know, I always say make friends with your liquor managers. It's's extremely important. So, um, I scored a.

Speaker 3: 51:44

I scored a bottle of Buffalo trace recently at my local liquor store. Nice and I wasn't even anything in this customer that was in front of me. He's like you know, they got that over there and I'm like what yeah? And it was like $28 or something.

Speaker 2: 51:59

I know.

Speaker 3: 52:00

Total retail price.

Speaker 2: 52:01

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:01

It's total retail price.

Speaker 3: 52:02

It's so good it is.

Speaker 1: 52:04

And it's just depending, like even in our local grocery store, people I mean I'm sure they're hoarding it like behind me here, but it's like I'll see it one day like seven on the shelf. I'll go the next day to pick up a few items and the whole shelf is empty.

Speaker 2: 52:21

So, oh, there we go. Oh yeah, I got a few bottles uh sticking around. I just don't put them in my background. But oh, but, shane, if, if you ever want to ride, uh, you should check out. Uh, bourbon country burn.

Speaker 3: 52:37

I've heard about it.

Speaker 2: 52:38

Yeah, we've done it.

Speaker 3: 52:39

It's a couple. It was a couple that does it.

Speaker 2: 52:42

Yes, yeah, a couple of years and it's, it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 52:50

So, yeah, they put out a very um, a very vague email, um, leading to or alluding to that this was, you know it was a, it was an idea for them and just like, just like bike virginia was for somebody down the line and and but um, that you know they enjoyed it. But now they have family you know they've had children um, and that they weren't sure where it was going to go, and, and this may be the last one. So either they're great into sales and marketing and we are hook, line and sinker like the old catfish bait.

Speaker 1: 53:21

And and and here we are, catfish bait and and here we are, um. The only problem, in our personal opinion, is the ride is very similar, where the routes are the same and that's the same year after it's difficult, so for us for us, you know, being our love of bourbon and and and and and the enjoying of going to some of the distilleries.

Speaker 1: 53:41

Um, we'd like to see different distilleries or whatever, and so, but we felt that being the last year that we would. This is right in the podcast and we can, you know maybe it's just a great.

Speaker 3: 53:52

I was going to say maybe it's just a great.

Speaker 2: 53:53

This is our target market right here. So go ahead, michael. I was saying getting back now that we've kind of going down rabbit holes here, but bourbon, getting bourbon, nothing wrong with that. So you guys are getting away. What, what you got plans to to shake it up? What? What's the, what's the future look like? What do you guys think?

Speaker 3: 54:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's sort of, you know, the organization is 30 plus years old, so it's you know, and it's a nonprofit. So it's not easy to kind of break out and like figure out, well, what are we going to do, like we were doing all this stuff. And there's a million ideas, you know, like from board members to friends, to you know, all these different concepts of what to do. And it's amazing, you know. I mean you guys experienced this. But when you started, when you're into something, everybody has an idea. Everybody is like, oh, you can do this, or you should do this and you should do that, and it's like, yeah, it's a great idea. So so we we sort of we we reach out, made a great call with the director out at Psychcle Oregon and they're doing some cool stuff over there, opening up a whole advocacy side, and they're doing some rides. But you know, the rides are just not, they don't really pay the bills that much. So they're branching out of different areas and so we're doing something similar, our path forward we haven't really announced too much of it yet doing something similar, our path forward, and we haven't really announced too much of it yet. We're kind of still trying to figure out how it's all going to work is sort of have kind of two arms of Bike Virginia and Bike Virginia.

Speaker 3: 55:35

In the past has been in and out of advocacy, you know, like I was saying like working with the DMV and sort of advocacy at the state level, and so we're hoping to reopen that up and work with communities around Virginia or Mid-Atlantic, or even the whole US for that matter, because I think collectively between Kim and I and Sam, we have a lot of collective knowledge about stuff like active recreation and tourism and how to put on events and things that could be valuable for communities. Looking for, you know like, how do we, you know, get rid of, you know, obesity in our community? Or how do we, you know, attract tourism in our community? How do we, you know, attract tourism in our community? How do we do these different things that we could, we could help them? So we're hoping to sort of have a consulting arm to help communities with the knowledge that we have and then also still put on events, but smaller, not the big tour anymore. One of the things that we're looking at is like even like real small, like 20 to 40 people and more kind of like the back road style tour, if you guys know those those guys, but sort of like all inclusive, you know, and it's kind of like like everything is there and it's sort of nice and and all that sort of stuff, and then, um, maybe even just like one or two day events. So that's kind of our.

Speaker 3: 57:13

Our path forward is sort of that consulting side and then events and and and just so you guys know too, all the staff at bike virginia was furloughed in july, okay, so we were all you know too, all the staff at Bike Virginia was furloughed in July, okay. So we were, all you know, like, like after the tour, shortly after the tour, we were all let go and, um, just kind of a, you know, it was like wow, like I say I've been the longest job I've ever had, and so it was. You know, know, from a financial situation is like, oh, now I don't have the income that I had. And then also just from a psychological, like, wow, you know, like it's end of an era for me. You know it's 15 years in this sort of space and now, now it's not really there.

Speaker 3: 57:55

So back to landscaping you know, and I've done some of that- and I've kind of I've thought about like, okay, we'll adjust all some stuff. In fact, I got a friend that he's got a couple of development projects and he wants me to kind of give him a proposal for stuff, and I'm like I've got knowledge, but it's like 15-year-old knowledge. You've got to knock the dust off of it and get back into it.

Speaker 2: 58:18

Well, I've got a half an acre behind my house that needs help. I mean you could start there.

Speaker 1: 58:23

There you go house that needs help. I mean, you could start there, you know, there you go.

Speaker 3: 58:28

Yeah, I charge them. I charge them a lot, gene. Hey, bourbon, I can hook you up. You got to do the work first, then we can provide. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1: 58:34

That's true, but I you know, from a personal standpoint you talked about the you kind of hit home. You don't know, you hit home, but I'll tell you. You hit home In 2008 and nine. You hit home, but I'll tell you, you hit home. In 2008 and nine I lost two full-time jobs within like a week and a half of each other almost, and you know I started over and and that's kind of definitely like talk about a slap of reality, and so I can completely understand where that came from.

Speaker 1: 58:59

And and we just were we just interviewed some people from Padre Cycling a charter that are doing a little intimate kind of thing and so and Michael actually always does away from the show not recorded but Michael will talk to me about you know, there's a lot of people who can't. You know, if you start like, let's just say, just for a second COVID and you were in a career and you start over and you have to have new benefits at a new job and you get two weeks off of work with your new vacation and you have a family, go home and tell your wife that you're going to spend one of the two weeks that you have and you're going to do a week long bike tour.

Speaker 1: 59:41

Tell me how that goes. And so I think your your idea of having some, you know, maybe one or two day deals, or maybe one overnight deal or or some. I think that's actually really um, uh, really, I mean more intimate rides. I think it was described to me as the way you were looking at it.

Speaker 2: 59:57

So and you know, adam and I have talked about this because we generally do, uh, one, or generally do two week long rides every every year. We try to mix it up, um, but we've often talked about getting involved in more of just like the the two-day weekend type rides and things like that, and we, from our point of view, have often thought, you know, we need to get into more of those type of rides, um, which would allow us to get out and see more places and things like that. So you might be onto something there and see we're kind of both lucky.

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

We both have careers that allow us to remote work, and so we actually, when we're on these cycling tours, many times we don't really advertise this a lot, but we actually have laptops in our bags and then we, you know, we might sit down. I'm not going to lie. We sit down at dinner and then there's a bourbon usually, but then we're banging away emails and everything and doing work from the road. So we make it work the way we make it work, and then some people online would be like we want your jobs. You're always gone.

Speaker 3: 1:01:06

I'm like well, I don't know if you know, but you know, there's there's time after work, though, that we can, you know, have some fun and enjoyment. So, yeah, yeah, and I, I've, I've been working from home since about 2011. Ish, wow, we kind of did away with our office. So you're right, you're, you're.

Speaker 3: 1:01:22

it seems like you have from the outside, like you have all this time, but you're kind of always working you know like you're not always taking a bunch of time off, but you're sort of always hanging it, whether it's like an hour a day or an hour a day.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

No, there's no money through Friday.

Speaker 3: 1:01:38

There's, there's, no, there's like when I was there is for me, but whatever you I don't work for the, but whatever you don't work for, Some of us don't work for the federal government.

Speaker 1: 1:01:49

Some of us have to work for county government, but but I tell my family that you know, in the old days, you know, I oversee 84 employees. I think In the old days, friday nights, you did not call your boss on the weekend. I mean the place had to be burning down or something. And nowadays it could be Saturday night and my wife will all the time. I mean I understand where she's coming from, by the way. She's like are you getting paid to take those calls on Saturday night? I'm like, well, yeah, it's kind of kind of part of the gig. So you, but but there is no filter anymore. So Yep, you're right.

Speaker 3: 1:02:24

And I like it. I mean it's a change. It's just like everything that we've been talking about. It's always a change, and I've kind of adopted this phrase, but change is the one constant, absolutely, and everything is going to change. And it's just like the bicycle industry is changing. The bicycle tour industry is changing. The bicycle tour industry is changing and because it's because people are changing.

Speaker 3: 1:02:48

You know, like the people that did the events are are moving on, they're doing, they're aging out and the people that are younger are just not doing those events anymore. They're doing other stuff. They're still riding, um, but you know, like they're just it's different. They, you know it's more like group rides with buddies and friends than it is organized. And even if it's organized, especially like just local Richmond stuff, they're pretty good rides but they're all free. You know, it's just like a bike shop says, hey, we're doing this big dumb ride, come ride with us. And you know, 100 people, people will show up for the bus and it's not supported. You know, and you've got your riding gps, computer and you're kind of on your own. But that's kind of the younger gen under the boomers, that's more their style than you know. The boomers like the, I think, coming from the, you know the structure and structure exactly I want to pay this thing and I want to know everything is there and I want to ride my bike.

Speaker 3: 1:03:48

Nowadays it's just like us working from home. They didn't work from home. They checked in and they hit a time clock and did all kinds of stuff. It's all just change. And change can be uncomfortable but at the end of the day it's still just change.

Speaker 2: 1:04:04

It's going to happen. So tell us a little bit about Pelo Bikes, if you don't mind.

Speaker 3: 1:04:10

Sure, yeah. So, pelo, as I mentioned before, we sold our first bike in May of 2016 and we have been, we've sort of we've been. It's been a roller coaster too. So when we started the company it is a children's specific bicycle company and just a quick backstory on how even the concept was launched was I, you know, being a cyclist myself and you know all into bikes and that stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:04:52

I, you know, being a cyclist myself and you know all into bikes and that stuff I didn't realize how crappy kids' bikes were until I had kids and really had to get them a bike. And I was like, you know, we had some hand-me-downs at first, but then my now 16-year-old at the time he was six, I think, maybe five but we went, we rode our bikes down to the local bike shop and got him a 20-inch Cannondale single speed and it wasn't cheap, it was like 300 bucks and we rode it back and I started really kind of checking it out and the geometry was cool, but it was heavy. It was really heavy and it had cheap parts on it and that sort of stuff. So I'm like, all right, I'll start rummaging through my bins. I'm like maybe I can find a lighter seat post and you know I do different things. And then there's just like a light bulb went off, like why didn't somebody make a better bike, you know. And then so then the research started and all this stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:05:39

And you guys know, the bicycle industry is just, it's just like it's a, you know it's a red ocean. Everybody is always like competing and trying to get 300. There's 300 people that make saddles. Everything in the bicycle industry is like occupied. But this like one little niche of good quality lightweight kids bike was not really being sold. That's cool and that kind of opened my eyes to it. And then, next thing, you know, I'm in taiwan, the taipei cycle show, and I'm talking to like different you know um builders and all this different stuff and um, yeah, and then it kind of led down that road and we launched our. We had four bikes to start um in that in 2016. And just as a comparison, our single speed 20-inch bike was seven pounds lighter than the Cannondale and only $50 more. So ours was $350 versus $300. So it was kind of like a oh yeah you know sort of moment.

Speaker 3: 1:06:40

And then, yeah, pelo has just been, we've been cruising along. Covid was wild. That was kind of. You know, we were sort of making it and at the time there was only when we launched the brand there was one other company and they were out of the UK. They're called Isla Bikes and she was doing something similar but you couldn't get them in the US. And then, right as we're launching, another brand came up in the US called Clela Bikes and she was doing something similar but you couldn't get them in the US.

Speaker 3: 1:07:06

And then, right as we're launching, another brand came up in the US called Cleary Bikes, out of California. And then another brand popped up WOM, w-o-o-m. They're an Austrian company but they have a thing out in Texas. And then another brand, prevelo, opened up. So it's still a small little niche. And then the big boys have also improved their bicycles. They've made their kids' bikes better over the years and I think partly because of small brands like us kind of making it better. And then we were kind of chucking along and the other market still was kind of there and I was still doing bike Virginia stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:07:49

And then, and then COVID came along and it's like man you know, we sold all the bikes we had and then we got another container and sold that whole container off and then we went to order more and it was like two to three years before we see the bikes, wow. So, yeah, the supply chain just went Reaching halt, yeah, and it was not a screeching halt, it was like full, it was turned to 11, but the line was just, you know, around the world to get bikes, so everybody needed stuff. So, going back to SRAM and Shimimano, those guys were, um, we switched our geared bikes were running shram at the time and we switched to shimano for that next batch because shorter lead time, um, shram was like 400 days of lead time, wow, and shimano was like 300. So it's still, you know, over a year, but it was a little bit better. And then, yeah, and then since then so you can imagine, we didn't have bikes for three years. Cashflow was like non-existent.

Speaker 3: 1:08:57

I just kind of put it in hibernation mode. We moved into a much smaller space and just waited on our bikes. We moved into a much smaller space and just waited on our bikes and then our bikes came back, or they came to us after waiting for a couple of three years, and then the whole market just doesn't support what it used to support. So then it's taken us a long time to sell bikes. We're pretty much sold out of the bikes that we had from that COVID order. But it took a long time and we're a small company.

Speaker 3: 1:09:30

So now we're kind of we're working on bikes and we're we're hoping to get another shipment this spring or fall and it's a full revamp of our of our lineup. We're doing some really cool stuff, like all our drive trains now. So we've got three geared bikes out of our lineup. We've got all the way from a balance bike you guys know those little bikes that you know there's no pedals or anything on them All the way we've got that which is a 12-inch wheel and then a 14-inch pedal bike, and then a 16-inch pedal bike and a 20, 14 inch pedal bike and then a 16 inch pedal bike and a 20 inch pedal bike, and those are all single feeds. And then we have a 20 inch geared bike, a 24 inch geared bike and a 27, five inch geared bike. And, um, one of the cool things we're doing on those is we're switching all the drive train to this company called box component, if you guys know those guys.

Speaker 1: 1:10:25

I don't think I've heard of them.

Speaker 3: 1:10:28

Yeah, they're based out of California and they're pretty cool. I talked to them. They're huge in the BMX world, so Box Components are huge in the BMX side but they've gotten into drivetrains like mountain bike drivetrains. So one of the reasons that we're partnering with them on our next batch of bikes is one they're a US company and we kind of it's been sort of from the beginning of Pelo. We sort of tried anywhere we can.

Speaker 3: 1:10:59

In fact, when I started the company, I was like there's got to be a way. There's got to be a way to make these bikes in the US and it just wasn't At the time in 2000,. We really started the idea in 2014, but at that time 97% of all the bikes produced in the world were produced in China and 2% were produced I'm sorry, 95% and then 2% were produced in Taiwan. So that left 3% for the rest of the world for bicycle production. So if you're going to make any, you know like you can get cool-ass custom bikes in the US, no problem. You know, I've got friends that are custom frame builders and that's just different. That's a different. That's a whole different world. But if any sort of volume of a bicycle china was worth that and they built a village around it. You know, just like um foxconn for apple yeah yeah, I

Speaker 3: 1:11:52

mean it's like it's just, you know, like it's kind of neat because the infrastructure and this is why you know everybody kind of all the tariff stuff I don't want to get on too much of a tangent, but like all the terror stuff is like, yeah, we're trying to make more production in the US, but and the weird part about it is that when you put the tariffs on it, it's not the Chinese that are paying it, it's me Exactly. Ultimately, it's trying to get passed on. We still ignore the bus, but it tries to get passed on to the customer. So it's a weird thing. And then it's like, oh well, if you're charging us all this money, how can we even think about trying to produce anything you know in the US? So it's like, and then if you look at China and Taiwan, you know they built this infrastructure and it's like, like I say, it's like a village. So you know like you'll have the assembler, which is like what our manufacturer does.

Speaker 3: 1:12:48

They basically they build the frame and then they gather all the components and then they assemble the bikes, they paint them and do all that stuff too. But you know like where they are, just down the street, is the cardboard guy, and just down the street is Kenda tires, you know, so they can just quickly get it up. You know it's not like us. Even if we do try to build bikes, everything is still imported, all the parts. You know Shimano comes from Malaysia. Or you know, like all the tubing is still coming from China, or you know, like all this sort of stuff. So they've built that network we used to have, you know, we used to have it here. But just like you know, we've kind of all of our manufacturing, you know, through our US history is like. You know we're more, I feel like we're more design, intellectual type stuff in the U S. I think we're going to get more back to manufacturing just because we got a lot of people that need a lot of jobs and you know.

Speaker 3: 1:13:52

you know there's a great job Manufacturing jobs are good jobs. So, um gosh, what was I even going with that?

Speaker 2: 1:13:59

I think you're, I think you're a hundred percent on because you know you look at like Detroit in the forties and the fifties and the thirties and all that. I mean that's what you're talking to village. Everything that you needed to buy to build an automobile was being produced in Detroit, from the seats to the tires, to everything to build an automobile was being produced in Detroit, from the seats to the tires, to everything. So you're exactly right. It's hard to overcome that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:21

But I do want to give you kudos, because we've often talked, Adam, that one of the biggest things is as younger, the younger generation is not getting into cycling. And you know what, If you make those bicycles lighter, it's going to make it more enjoyable for them and then there's a better chance that they're going to continue doing that as they go. Cause I remember when I was a kid I mean the bike weighed a ton, right, I mean it was my freedom, but I looked at cycling different than the young kids. But you make those frames lighter, make it more enjoyable for them and we have a better chance of hooking them to uh, you know, Start a lifelong cycling journey.

Speaker 1: 1:14:54

I was a kid in the 80s and I had a BMX Huffy before my parents finally said goodbye to me it was a mighty fine Huffy too.

Speaker 1: 1:15:01

By gosh, it was chrome and I broke the frame on a jump, but that's not important right now. Then I got a GT Performer because my dad said, oh, he said my son's getting into all this crazy stuff, and the guy said I'd get him something a little higher quality, Otherwise, he said. He said my son is getting into all this crazy stuff and the guy said, oh yeah, get him something a little higher quality, Otherwise he's going to get hurt, and so, but you know, that's a, that's a great point. And and I have a question real quick, you said a balance bike. I see the word Strider. Is Strider a brand or is balance bike? A Strider is a brand of a balance bike.

Speaker 3: 1:15:31

Yeah, so Str balance bike, yeah, so strider is kind of like the kleenex. You know, like what do you say when you need the tissue? You say, oh, you got a kleenex. Yeah, it's kind of like strider and it's rather. I mean, to their credit, they, they popularize the whole balance bike market and which is a kind of it's a funny thing. I always kind of chuckle on the inside because you know, like a balance bike is really the first bicycle you look way back you.

Speaker 3: 1:15:54

The first bicycle was like two wagon wheels with a thing in the middle. No crank, you just used your feet to glide along with it. So yeah, it's kind of funny, so, strider is a brand.

Speaker 1: 1:16:07

A brand, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:16:08

So yeah, because you know, just in my neighborhood I live in a subdivision here and I see the kids going around and they pass the Strider brand bike around and once their kid outgrows it, then they go to the neighbor, to the neighbor, to the neighbor to the neighbor.

Speaker 1: 1:16:23

But yeah, I always said, you know, my father taught me how to ride a bike. And some may think this is cruel, but he actually we lived out in the country, in Illinois, and there was a lot of hills and there's an old apple orchard, illinois, and there was a lot of hills and there's an old apple orchard, and he took me to the top of the hill and I'm not kidding you when he would hold onto the seat for a while and then eventually he just kind of gave a little push and and it was grass and dirt and then that was it. I mean so. But now, um, my, my golf partner and great friends, his grandson had one of those balanced bikes for a while. His grandson had one of those balance bikes for a while and then finally they gave him a regular bike and that afternoon they took the training wheels off.

Speaker 3: 1:17:00

So I tell you, it's like the balance bike has it's, it's, it's transformed, like not only how quickly kids get into cycling or are able to cycle, but also sort of like how they do it, because it's, you know, with with it, like you know, my both of my boys. They they were on the strider and they started pedaling. They're like my oldest started pedaling his first pedal bike at two, like he was pedaling a bicycle and riding a bicycle at two years old.

Speaker 1: 1:17:31

That's awesome, you know years old that's awesome In our generation.

Speaker 3: 1:17:33

it was like 7, 8, 10.

Speaker 3: 1:17:36

It wasn't uncommon, nobody really thought about it. But if you think about a balance bike from a kid's perspective, it's like and I tell this to parents all the time too I'm like just get the bike, even when they're one, and just put it in the house and then they just think it's like a toy and they pick it up and they do these things and what they're doing is they're learning balance, you know. And what are three components to cycling is balance breaking and pedaling right. You have to have those three things to ride a bicycle.

Speaker 2: 1:18:10

Michael, what do you always say? What you don't need?

Speaker 1: 1:18:13

brakes no you can't coast forever. That's debatable.

Speaker 2: 1:18:18

My saying is, and it's on my watch here on my little band thing is you can't coast forever, so yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:18:25

There you go, there you go, yeah, so if you think about a little bitty baby kid that learns balance, because once they pick it up they're just like you know, they're cruising. Oh yeah, that's cool. And our balance bike also has a rear brake. It's got this little tiny brake lever on it and so, whether the kid even knows how to use it, they're exposed to it, right. So they're already starting. They're like what is this thing? So when they move to the next bike and they're like, oh, I don't know what it is, but I'm familiar with it, and so they've already learned balance.

Speaker 3: 1:18:58

So then the next thing is pedal and braking, and if they're introduced to braking and they're already kind of over that hurdle, so if you take away balance from learning how to ride a bicycle, that's you, you've already got the balance down. You're figuring out how to crank your legs around now. So you take that one element out. So now kids are like, well, shit, yeah, they just they're riding it so young, right, and um, you know, just kind of talk about. You know, tie that back into like what we were talking about earlier with just the demographic and what the kids doing are they playing video games and stuff, and and yeah, that's definitely part of it, but they're also they're they're getting into it so much earlier than we did, and then they're exposed to so much more stuff than we were.

Speaker 3: 1:19:42

You know, like with the internet, and not only just the internet and games and stuff, but Red Bull and the X Games, and it's like the kids, you know, I mean it's still a big deal, but like my kids don't even make a care less about, you know, the tour de france, because that's like just a different thing but a bunch of old guys on bikes doing these crazy jumps and all this shit.

Speaker 3: 1:20:10

Man to watch this stuff all day and then. So then they're also learning all that stuff and they're just doing. They're still biking, they're just doing it differently than we have in the past.

Speaker 3: 1:20:19

Yeah, so, yeah. So back to pedo, you know our and michael, what you were talking about, like that, that is sort of our, our core things like planting the seed and, if you can, that's one of the things that I used to talk about all the time too is like, you know, when I started the company, um, people would I would go to these trade shows and or festivals and stuff, and people would come up to them and they'd be like, oh, this is cool, what is this? And then they would, they would see the price and it was like $300 for, you know, a little bike. And they're like, wow, they would balk at it. You know, I'm not gonna pay $300 for my kid or a bike that my kid's going to outgrow in two years, and you know. And A hard sell, yeah, and you know. But I mean, if you're a cyclist, you're kind of like $300. That's what I spend on a seat post.

Speaker 3: 1:21:07

Like for my kid to have a great bike.

Speaker 3: 1:21:09

That's a bargain, you know, for somebody that rides a bunch. So for somebody that rides a bunch, so that aside. But my argument to the people that would buck up the price was like, okay, well, let's look at this. You go to Walmart and pay $100 for the bike and you go out and the kid tries to ride it and it probably doesn't work right because the brakes are so hard to pull or the geometry is so awkward that the kid is just like they almost look like a carnival sort of clown on the bike or something and it's super crazy heavy. So it's like, yeah, that experience wasn't great for the kid.

Speaker 3: 1:21:44

And you put them on a good bike like a pillow and it's like, whoa, okay, the brake works well and I can go. So you spend $100 on the bike that the kid rode one time and thought it's tough, so it didn't want to ride anymore. You paid three times as much but your kid rides it probably 20 times as much as he did the Walmart bike. So if you start like, if you want to do it money wise, you start putting that money out per ride. It's like, you know, not too long, that $300 bike is like already way more beneficial financially than that hundred dollar.

Speaker 3: 1:22:20

You know bike that you know you can sell real cheap.

Speaker 2: 1:22:23

And, by the way, we have no issues with Walmart bikes but but your kids will enjoy it much better if they've got a quality bike. And I have bought a Walmart bike before. I had to put it together Like it was just in a box and it's like put this thing together, uh, which I was wondering. Why that rear?

Speaker 1: 1:22:45

seat was on the front of that thing. That was.

Speaker 3: 1:22:47

It doesn't even have a seat what you don't even need to see that.

Speaker 2: 1:22:50

But, uh, you know so, I, I, I hear what you're saying and there is a lot of advantages to that. And, and you know so, I hear what you're saying and there is a lot of advantages to that. And you know, I have children and them having that first experience, and it being a positive experience, goes a long ways, because if they have a negative experience, then you have to, as a parent, talk them into that next step. If they have a great experience, then they're like coming to you saying I want to do this more, I want to do this more Exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:23:13

Let's go for a ride.

Speaker 2: 1:23:15

Absolutely. They're like coming to you saying I want to do this more. I want to do this more, exactly, let's go for a ride, absolutely. So I'm assuming you got a website out there for the Pelo bike If I wanted to buy one where would I go, pelobikescom Yep.

Speaker 1: 1:23:26

Is that P-E-L-L-O?

Speaker 3: 1:23:29

It is.

Speaker 2: 1:23:29

P-E-L-L-O-B-I-K-E-S dot com and we'll put that on our website we sure will, you can drop that on YouTube and Facebook and

Speaker 1: 1:23:38

podcasts and everything.

Speaker 3: 1:23:40

One final thing I wanted to say your website is coming Cool.

Speaker 2: 1:23:43

Okay, one thing I wanted to say. Adam, I know something about Richmond Virginia.

Speaker 3: 1:23:49

Oh.

Speaker 2: 1:23:50

All right, yeah, do you know anything about that? All right, yeah, do you know anything about that? I believe, if I am not mistaken, patrick Henry said his famous quote in one of the churches there. What was it?

Speaker 3: 1:24:04

Oh, come on Give me liberty or give me death he said it in.

Speaker 2: 1:24:07

Richmond Virginia.

Speaker 3: 1:24:08

He did Churchill.

Speaker 2: 1:24:09

Yep At one of the churches there. Exactly During the revolution in 1777 probably it turned the whole country around like it's the whole the revolutionary thing started happening give me liberty or just ax me right now but, you know it's funny is?

Speaker 3: 1:24:27

my son, um, when he was in elementary, had to recite that and he was kind of struggling with the you know remembering it and he was kind of struggling with remembering it and he was kind of I'm like, all right, let's go, let's go to the church where it happened. There you go, it's perfect, and experience it. You know, from that perspective and man, he nailed it. I took a video of him. It was pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 1:24:50

Yeah, it was the St Charles or St John's, St John's, I think, church.

Speaker 3: 1:24:55

But yeah, it was the St Charles or St John's, St John's, I think church. But yeah, they have a huge Irish fest every year right in that little area and the church is kind of part of that theme.

Speaker 2: 1:25:02

I'll have to see if we've got any listeners on our podcast from Richard. Maybe that'll be our listener spotlight one of these days.

Speaker 1: 1:25:08

Well, I hope after this we do.

Speaker 2: 1:25:11

Well, we might. If he listens to our podcast, then we've got somebody we do a listener spotlight.

Speaker 1: 1:25:16

That's right.

Speaker 2: 1:25:19

Which kind of highlights a certain town. I give little hints and have people guess, and then the next episode we tell them where it was and we thank them.

Speaker 1: 1:25:26

So Michael's background used to be history teacher and he brings that to the show and we kind of we have a little fun with that where he'll say, do you know where that is, adam? And he'll go oh, you remember this, don't you? And I'm like, yeah, I have no idea.

Speaker 2: 1:25:39

But that's how I slept through history. Well, he didn't sleep through because he went to military.

Speaker 1: 1:25:44

I did go to military school A lot of attention.

Speaker 2: 1:25:46

Let's just say that.

Speaker 1: 1:25:47

Colonel Meredith, I don't know where you are now, but that's two times that you've been mentioned in two shows.

Speaker 1: 1:25:52

So listen, we've been talking with Shane Cusick and Shane, I appreciate you coming and giving us some of your time this evening. I've highly enjoyed talking to you about Bike Virginia, where it was where you guys are looking and I see Bike Virginia right now. Bikevirginiaorg is the website. Nothing new there right now it's still showing last year's ride, but any idea when someone might want to take a look at, maybe when you might be willing to announce some things.

Speaker 3: 1:26:26

Yeah, hopefully sooner than later. That's sort of one of our things, like I was saying. Like you know, 30 plus year of doing certain things, it's like all right. Now we got to pivot, we got to do these things, and it's like all right, how do we structure it? And so we're in the background working on the website and planning these events. I'm not sure exactly when we're going to launch it out.

Speaker 1: 1:26:52

That's okay. I mean, I'm enjoying the drone footage here, whoever took it.

Speaker 3: 1:27:00

That was one of our. Yeah, that was Glenmire Park one of the years. That's cool, Cool ride.

Speaker 2: 1:27:07

But yeah, shane, we certainly thank you for your time, for coming on and talking with us, and certainly we would appreciate it if you'd relay any updates on Bike Virginia to us. We'd be happy to get those out to our followers and anytime something comes up new with Pelo Bikes, certainly let us know. And you know, if you come out with something, you know the latest and greatest, or something maybe we can have you on a future show, just to talk to you about kids biking and the Pelo Bikes that you guys make and things like that.

Speaker 2: 1:27:35

So I think that'd be awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:27:36

That would be awesome. I'd love to touch base when we do the next batch, when the next batch of bikes comes out.

Speaker 2: 1:27:42

Yeah, keep us informed. We'd love to have you back.

Speaker 1: 1:27:46

Yeah, for sure, I, I, I, so thank you, and I know we've we've played. We played back and forth emails and this was definitely worth the wait and this was a lot of fun. I really appreciate your time.

Speaker 2: 1:28:01

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:28:02

I had a great time. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 1:28:05

All right guys.

Speaker 1: 1:28:08

Okay, well, listen, you know listening to that again. I always enjoy when we do interviews like that I mean gentlemen's building bikes and, you know, enveloping rides. I'm a little bit sad. I mean, here we always talk about rides going away, and so that's never a great feeling, but I thought the interview was great.

Speaker 2: 1:28:30

Yeah, it's a great interview, you know, interesting to learn about. You know a segment of bikes that we don't really think much about, you know, other than hey, there's a Huffy down at Walmart or whatever. But I like his concept, I like his idea. I think he's got a good, you know, business model from what I can tell. So wish him all the luck there and it was a great interview. Sorry, I apologize, it got a little long, but again, when we're having these it's a conversation and we just let it flow.

Speaker 1: 1:28:59

So I mean, joe Rogan has four hour episodes, so we're not as that bad, but we're also not Joe Rogan, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey. Dude, remember what we learned at Podfest we can say whatever we want, we are the number one cycling one, cycling podcast well, we very well could be, actually that actually might not be, uh, uh pushing the envelope.

Speaker 1: 1:29:26

So true story. And then I know we're going to get to listener spotlight and end this. But so we went to one of these breakout sessions and I'm sure all of you have been to some sort of conference or listening session or learning session or something, whether it be small to big or whatever we're in a room about. Would you say like 200 people? Yeah, so we're sitting there and this lady stands up on stage and she said hi, I'm so-and-so from the number one podcast. And nobody blinked an eye and she kept going and she's like by the way, did you all believe that I was from the number one podcast? I'm just like I did. Why would I not believe you? And she's like you can say whatever you want. I mean, your listeners are the ones that are going to call you out.

Speaker 2: 1:30:16

It's not regulated. And I was like I told Michael by golly saying we're the number one cycling podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:30:17

Yeah, but then you get into some moral and credibility things.

Speaker 2: 1:30:19

But I mean honestly, we're probably pretty high up there in cycling content.

Speaker 1: 1:30:29

Well, if you do your research, there is a lot of downloads, so I love it. Sure, never thought we would be here, my friend, and this is a lot of downloads, so I love it. So sure, never thought we would be here, my friend, and this is a lot of fun, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:30:39

So we're not going to lie, but we could be the number one cycling podcast Could be.

Speaker 1: 1:30:45

Possibly. Well, I know one thing we're the number one podcast in this household.

Speaker 2: 1:30:50

Well, we are the number one cycling of leisure podcast. I will guarantee that.

Speaker 1: 1:30:57

That's true, that's true.

Speaker 2: 1:30:59

What do we got to wrap this up?

Speaker 1: 1:31:02

Ladies and gentlemen, it is now time for Listener Spotlight.

Speaker 2: 1:31:09

All right, we're going to wrap it up with the clues for this Listener Spotlight. This town was founded by English settlers. It was settled in the early to mid 1600s. The town's first economy was driven by farming and fishing. Uh, starting in about the mid 1800s actually 1840, the railroad came to town, which helped spur its economy towards recreation. So, starting in the mid-1800s, this became a recreational destination. The town is named for a location in England and this town is one of the oldest towns in the state, st Louis. Yeah, because we all know that in the mid-1800s St Louis developed, became a recreational destination.

Speaker 1: 1:32:16

Well, it's always good to be with you, buddy, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2: 1:32:22

Maybe a little earlier than that. It was a destination, but certainly not recreational. It might have been destination to you know. Actually that would have been all right, head out to California, so they weren't going there for recreation.

Speaker 1: 1:32:38

Let Zeppelin sing a song going to California.

Speaker 3: 1:32:42

Yes, Listen on that note.

Speaker 1: 1:32:46

I appreciate you always doing the research, appreciate you bringing that to the table. We do have some updates. We've got some big brag updates. We do have some updates. We've got some big brag updates. We've got jersey updates. We've got all kinds of things to talk about, but we know this one's long. So please, in two weeks from now, please join us. We'll give you all the updates, everything that you ever want to know about cycling. Men and women of leisure.

Speaker 2: 1:33:15

Maybe not everything, but we'll give you a lot, hey and you know what today is. Yeah, Definitely it's a great day for a bike ride.

Speaker 1: 1:33:26

All right, have a good day, my friend. Hey, you too, we'll talk to you later.